Gun Dog Forum

I am new here and I have a situation. I have started my own pigeon coop. The birds were puchased from a guy that raced them. All the info I have read informs me that I will have to wait till I have reared some chicks that will know of no other place to fly back to other than my coop. So what I would like to know is if any of you know how to tether a pigeon so it can take flight just far enough to be out of sight of my pup so we can work up to another bird. This way a helper or myself can retrieve the birds to use again another day. I dont have wild pigeons or a game bird farm near by so I am having to make do with what I have.
Casper

Casper what you are talking about is reffered to as Carding a bird. How I do it is I get a good health pigion, sounds as if you have that. I will attach a piece of yarn to a piece of card board and then to one leg of the bird. I use a slip knot or something along the lines of that(no Boy Scout)Some people dizzy the bird a bit before release some don't. THe wind and the air drag of the card board tires the bird out a bit and will sit, but also be ready to take fight again when you work the dog to it. When I am training this way the dog is always on a check cord. Most offen the bird will react to the dog.
Also pick your training area wisely. Tall busy places and lot of tangle areas is not a good Idea.

One more thing. I don` know about pigeons that have been raced, but I thought if you kept a pigeon a month or two, any pigeon would home back to you. I have adult pigeons given to me that I keep up awhile then I train them to my coop.

Racing pigeons will always return to their original destination. You can keep them for years and they will still head back to where they came from if left free. And a lot times, if the previous owner gets his "bad" birds back, they get rather upset. I've been on both sides of the track...we used to race them when I was young.

Another problem: If you have flocks of wild pigeons around where you live (like I do) then it doesn't matter if you keep young pigeons in your coop all winter long, they'll eventually hook up with the wild ones and never come back.

Yep.

Tak
how long should the yarn be and how big a peice of card board. how far will a pigeon fly.
Thank you. You killed tow birds with one stone I was going to ask what carding was!

Country-Side Breeders wrote:Racing pigeons will always return to their original destination. You can keep them for years and they will still head back to where they came from if left free. And a lot times, if the previous owner gets his "bad" birds back, they get rather upset. I've been on both sides of the track...we used to race them when I was young.

Not always true.... I have a pair that was given to me. They have papers on them and range in price from $400 dollars a bird! I left them in the coop for about 4 weeks and they produced one egg. I was told to break it and they would produce 2 next time I did this and true to fact 2 eggs. Momma bird is sitting 2 eggs and I use both to work dogs and both returned every time........ So far so good!

Casper wrote:Tak
how long should the yarn be and how big a peice of card board. how far will a pigeon fly.
Thank you. You killed tow birds with one stone I was going to ask what carding was!

8 or so inches. Not to long so there is not mcuh to tangle around bushes. Just work with it and see what works for you.....

TAK wrote: Not always true.... I have a pair that was given to me. They have papers on them and range in price from $400 dollars a bird! I left them in the coop for about 4 weeks and they produced one egg. I was told to break it and they would produce 2 next time I did this and true to fact 2 eggs. Momma bird is sitting 2 eggs and I use both to work dogs and both returned every time........ So far so good!

You're right...they won't leave if they're sitting on a nest. Sometimes it's hard enough just to get them to leave to do cleaning!

Casper: Here is a version of Tak's suggestion with a little more detail. It is taken from a document I wrote for my clients a number of years ago.

Disked Birds:

Disked birds are a term I have coined for a technical modification I have created to the “carded” bird technique used to make non-covey or non-homing training birds recyclable. Not everyone has access to wild birds whenever certain training sessions are called for in the development of your bird dog. Not everyone can house homing pigeons or set up a recall pen situation yet wants the benefit of a “soft” planted bird that will flush as close to wild. Hampering the birds ability to fly very far yet be able to get up without hindrance, as a wild bird would, are great benefits to a trainer. Trainers for decades have been creating drag and using gravity to fatigue different bird species (quail, chukar and pigeons) so the bird could simulate the flush of a wild bird yet is recoverable for future reuse. The common method was to use cardboard in the shape of a rectangle of approximately 8”X12” dimensions to create this drag and weight. All materials have limitations and I found cardboard to be easily affected by water (rain or ponds) and too easily bent therefore loosing the drag benefit offered from a flat resistant surface. I also experienced the square corners snagging more often than what I perceived a round or disk shape might. I became aware of a material called Coraplast years ago which researching materials to use for solving various challenges in housing and transporting my hawks, falcons and owls. Coraplast is simply a “plastic” corrugated cardboard. It is much more durable than cardboard yet possesses approximately the same weight. Combining the durability of the Coraplast with a less snag resistant shape (circular) I hit upon a modification that seems superior to the one of old.

I made a few other small modifications that aid in the use of this “system”. Obviously the disks can be created in any practical size. Quail need less drag and gravity to bring them back to ground than pigeons. So I cut disk of 4”, 6”, 8”, and 12” and place a 3/8” hole in the center of all except a few of the 4” disks. These 4” disks I call my base disks and they have a 12” line (any longer increases the risk of tangling on equipment or low bushes yet doesn’t increase the effect of the system) fastened to the center of the disk using a small hole and simple knot to create a size that cannot be pulled back through the center hole. At the other end of the line I attach a quick opening fishing swivel. The reason for the fishing swivel? To reduce tangling and improve attachment ease to the bird’s leg. Many a potential training bird has escaped while the trainer is attempting to “tie” the string to the bird. When the training session is over and the bird recovered removed of the disk system is also very easy because of the clip-fastening portion of the fishing swivel. Because of the holes in the larger sized disks a larger disk (if needed) can be slipped over the line to increase drag and weight. One final modification I implemented was the use of brightly colored Coraplast. This aids in locating the down bird and yet seems to be more difficult for the dogs to see while the bird is planted or in the launcher.

Disked birds can be used in combination with launchers but care should be taken to have a training area devoid of trees that may allow the bird to roost out of reach or worse yet get hung up for a most disrespectful death.

William L. Dove © Copyright 1999-05 Owner and Operator of Lonesome Dove’s Kennel, Lonesome Dove’s Training Diary and Lonesome Dove’s Discussion Group.

Bill,

Do you use modified falconers jessies to attach the swivel and line to the birds leg?
And do you attach to one leg or both?
Thanks

Gunner: I don't but one could. Rather than jesses I would use a design of anklet with a very small gromet hole if I thought that was necessary. Pigeons are quite dirty birds so I would think anything semi-perminently attached to their tarsas would likely get filthy. Some falconers flying small raptors like kestrels, merlins, coopers and sharpies use a snap closure/leather anklet system that is removable after hunting. This system might have value.

The use of a pair of lines going to each tarsas or a short "V" structure would certainly reduce what little stress is applied. However, this benifit needs to be weighted against the risk of hangup based on the type of habitat in the training area.

I train often in areas with small bushes so like many "modifiers" I created this tool to reflect those conditions. If a person trains in very open habitat they don't need to be as concerned about hangups.

If any of this doesn't make sense I can make some drawings and post them but if you have some association with a falconer or group they can further explain the above.

Out of necessity falconers become resoursefull so the limiting factor will be your creativity. I would be interested in hearing back if you design a useful modification to this system. Bill

Ok, I'm going to be trying this this week for the first time. Reading the information about Coraplast got me to thinking... Would Old CDs work as a "card"? Maybe a 12" line, then a CD and possibly a 4" or so line and a 2nd CD?

This thread is 9 years old.

LOL It might be 9 years old to some but for someone trying to learn it may be brand new. I hope he has good luck with his carded birds and the dog turns out great.

I realized it was 9 years old when I posted my reply. It seemed to be a valid thread for my question. If I had of started a new thread I'm sure I would have gotten some "use the Search engine" responses. Now as to my question about using CDs as the "card", has anyone tried it?

I use a small plastic pepsi bottle in lieu of card. you can add weight to it by simply putting some water in it. if I want them to fly pretty far maybe no water at all or if I want them to only go a very short distance then half a bottle of water. bottles are all different sizes and pigeons have different strengths so I would try it before you use it with the dog. I should add that I just put the string in the mouth of the bottle and screw the lid on to hold.

Boolywooger wrote:I realized it was 9 years old when I posted my reply. It seemed to be a valid thread for my question. If I had of started a new thread I'm sure I would have gotten some "use the Search engine" responses. Now as to my question about using CDs as the "card", has anyone tried it?

this is a great response.

I was doing a little googling about this today as a matter of fact. thanks for reviving.

I dont want to start a loft, i just need like 4 birds and am looking for ways to keep them in my shed. without a huge mess.

here is a good link i had saved to my favorites.

http://www.thecheckcord.com/archives/cbirds.html

steadywithstyle.com has some info on this also.

I tried carding a pigeon one time. I used a piece of card board that I thought would be big enough. I tied it to the pigeon's leg and let him go. I thought that he would fly fifty yards or so out into the field and land. He flew all the way across the field that I was training in, landed at the top of a large tree and became tangled in the branches. The pigeon ended up hanging upside down from a limb at the top of a large tree. I drove ten miles home to get a shotgun and drove ten miles back and shot the pigeon. I have never tried to card a pigeon again. I do use a pigeon pole at times.

ezzy333 wrote:This thread is 9 years old.

Haha considering I'm getting so tired of seeing the same old posts and people not using the search fiction, this is refreshing. He's digging deep with the search bar hahaha

Nothing wrong with reviving the post as long as you don't question the original posters who in this case are seldom on anymore other than one.

Haha considering I'm getting so tired of seeing the same old posts and people not using the search fiction, this is refreshing. He's digging deep with the search bar hahaha

I have no idea what the hahahaha is for but I see no difference in this thread from the current ones. But if you do, good.

Boolywooger wrote:I realized it was 9 years old when I posted my reply. It seemed to be a valid thread for my question. If I had of started a new thread I'm sure I would have gotten some "use the Search engine" responses. Now as to my question about using CDs as the "card", has anyone tried it?

Cardboard gets wet, old and creased but it is biodegradable. It doesn't take long to rig up a new one. Where I train I see beer cans, plastic bottles an occasional sofa and old tv. And I train in a National Forrest.

A newly caught, strong bird will fly off with a cd. Carding works better. A cd will work fine on a stale weak flyer though. I'm sure not everyone knows there is a search engine to find old threads. For someone new to this board it might be nice to just answer the question and tell the person how to find more info.

I'm kind of leaning toward the 20 oz plastic bottle idea. That way I can go "too heavy" by adding water for the first flight and adjust accordingly rather than "Gee, that didn't work." as I watch the doomed pigeon fly off into the sunset.

Boolywooger wrote:I'm kind of leaning toward the 20 oz plastic bottle idea. That way I can go "too heavy" by adding water for the first flight and adjust accordingly rather than "Gee, that didn't work." as I watch the doomed pigeon fly off into the sunset.

i will have to look at the size of the bottle but i am sure it is not 20 oz. that is pretty big. i used the dark blue pepsi bottle just thinking it may not be as easy for the dog to see. probably 12 oz and filled with water they cant get off the ground.

I wasn't thinking of filling the 20 oz bottle, more like 2 to 3 inches to start.

Well, I decided to go with the carding option. I used kite string and 8x12" cardboard squares. I added a tail of hunter orange tape trail marking tape. The results weren't spectacular or terrible. The birds only flew about 3 to 5 feet off of the ground and flew about 30 yards. I needed to check cord Charlie away from the birds every time because they were clearly visible. They all flew before Charlie had an opportunity to establish point, but he never got close to catching one.

Booly, I've had birds fly away as I tried to tie a string around their feet, and some rip the card (both cardboard and plastic) off and fly out of sight. I've had the most luck with one end tied to the bird and the other end tied to a stake. The pigeon will sometime make a wide arch and other times hit the end of the line a little harder and then go down. The funny thing about training, especially if you do it by yourself, rarely do I find it goes exactly textbook. Pro trainers are probably much better at it since repetition surely works the kinks out. I have found that working with others helps as everyone gives each other advice on what has worked well for them in the past. Keep at it and then come back and share both your successes AND especially your failures. Since I've got two pups coming in the next couple of months, I've started a coop in my small backyard barn. I've got 5 feral pigeons in there now and am getting a trap soon. Looking forward to training soon!!

I have a pole that would be perfect for tethering a pigeon. It is out of one of those instant setup tents that got semi melted in a garage fire. It's fiberglass and about 15 feet long and can bend down into a 3' diameter circle. My question is, should I be doing anything with tethered pigeons with a 4 month old? I thought that was more used for steadying a dog to wing and shot. After using the carded pigeons I ended up teasing Charlie with them the next day then letting them fly off to build up his drive.