Training Questions

[GSP Kota]

After reading many posts in this section I am getting, I guess, overwhelmed. I have a new GSP puppy of field lineage and bought him for the purpose of hunting. He is 11 weeks old and I want to get him on the right track to help pull the best out of him in terms of hunting.

I seem to see differing opinions of when to start training, some suggest he won't be ready until 10 months to a year, some suggest 8 wks on. So I am asking for clarification or suggestions on how to start him off right.

As I have been checking out books and videos to buy to help with this I have discovered that there is enough info out there to stock a library. The are references to many differing books and styles here in the forum.

To be succinct I wanted opinions of videos and books on how to train the dog without being harsh on the dog so that I can incorporate ecollars, when necessary, but allow the dog to use as much of his natural instinct as possible.

He does like to run in high grass and he tends to point on anything that smells and moves in the grass and then he tries to jump on it to play. Right now he is all puppy and he comes when called. I have been working on "sit" and "kennel" but i really want to get him on the right track.

The worst thing about me is that I am a gadget freak and would probably break the bank buying toy, tools, books, and videos....which wold result in my own dog house; the one my loving wife put me in. I would like opinions on the tools I NEED, that will get use and the videos that would REALLY help me develop the dog in the way I described above. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thank you.

[gar-dog]

Obedience training and socialization starts now. When my pup was this age i just spent a lot of time with her on housetraining and focused on the "here" command, "kennel" and "no". But for the most part I just let her be a puppy and when she was about 16-18 weeks I took her out for little romps in fields I could find and let her explore. When I felt she could outrun me I put on a little check cord for her to drag on these romps.

No need to be overwhelmed. You have plenty of time. Mine didn't get an e-collar until 7-8 months and got first bird exposure in that timeframe. At 10 months she just got gunfire introduction. Just lay out the steps and do it one step at a time. In other words, just come up with a plan. It's not like some age will pass where it is too late to do something and the dog is now ruined. Take advice from the board like I did coming here 18 months ago as a total newb. There is plenty of time to absord the information here and read some books, etc. I got a lot of help from the Huntsmith Puppy Development I and II videos. Seeing the video reinforced what I was reading here and demystified a lot.

Good luck and congrats on your pup!
Gary

[jczv]

To me the best possible scenario is to find someone who lives near you that has a similarly bred dog - whose goals are similar to yours and who has already trained one (or better yet several dogs) to the level you want to train your dog. You also will need to be comfortable with their training style and approach.

You may be able to find someone in a local breed club, training grounds, NAVHDA or even through a board like this.

Hands on demonstration is incredibly helpful and the knowledge or seeing an adult dog that's used the steps your following doing what it's supposed to do is a good confidence builder.

[gar-dog]

PS - Don't teach the sit command. You don't want that to be the "default" setting for your dog when it gets correction or any stress in the field.

Also, when I got my TriTronics collar it came with a nice little DVD with intro instruction.

What state are you in?

[MillerClemsonHD]

I read a few books on training before I got my puppy, but the easiest way I felt to learn proper training techniques is through a video or DVD. I bought the perfect start/finish DVD set. Yes the cost some money upfront but with the amount of information in them they are well worth it. They go step by step and into detail of training methods. This is the first dog I am training. The next biggest item is to find someone who is experienced training either a pro or someone who has been around dogs for years to be a mentor and help you along the way. The key is being able to read the dog. Even if you want to do most of the training yourself a pro might be necessary for some things. If I end up having to do something like force fetch I would send the dog off. That is not something I would feel comfortable trying to tackle. It is also very nice to get opinions from those with experience on where you dog is, what you need to work on next etc.

I didn't notice if it was on there, but be sure to add your location to your profile as you might find someone on the board close to you that will be willing to help you out or meet up with you for some training. As well as look into a NAVHDA chapter in your area.

[Ruffshooter]

Congrats on your new pup.

For training just do basic obedience, Here, no.
Put a light check cord on the dog let him drag it around.
Bring the dog on many field and woods walks, let him explore chase point etc.
Get that little dog in the woodcock areas let him have at it.
Bring the dog to many events and places to socialize around people and other dogs.
Get some birds (very good flying birds) (Do not sleep the birds, quail, chuckars, or pigeons,)seed a field let pup have at it. If pup catches a bird don't worry at this point don;t make a big deal about it. Just take the bird quietly.
Take the pup to water often small streams shallow entrance ponds, go in the water don't say anything, Just go about your business.

Don't talk to your pup too much when on walks, don't make him dependent on you.

Play retrieves in a restricted area hallways, kennel, etc. wth check cord on so you can assist pup to come to you, with socks toys etc. make it so pup comes to you each time, not much talking to pup( not excited praise, can break the focus or pup may wonder whats up) but praise when all the way to you.

Let the pup learn and explore.

Have fun.
Rick

[GNS Shorthairs]

Ruffshooter and gardog have it right. Light training and socializing. "Here", "Kennel" and "No" are the words that I try to get across first. When the pup starts coming toward you, say "Here", reward with scooby snack. When you put pup in kennel, say "kennel" (I say "kennel up"). When pup is doesn't something undesirable, say "no" remove pup from situation. I'm hesitant to call these commands, it's more like teaching the ABCs to your two-year old, they aren't getting punished but they are learning to associate something verbal with an act. Socialize.

I also think that you can start your pup on little jaunts through the fields. Like ruffshooter said, don't talk to your pup during these excursions. I like to try to find a field that has not grown past the belly of the pup, with some thicker stuff that they can explore from the perimeter. You'll soon find the pup working in front of you with plenty of "look backs". However, I also begin to start some field "training" here also, once they begin to primarily work to the front of me. The only thing that I'll say in the field is "Hup" which means that I am changing direction, and I only say it once. Let the pup work and explore to the front, say "Hup", change direction 90-degrees and continue walking. Say it once and don't stop walking. Pup will hear the word, look at you, see that you have changed direction, and will be quick to catch up and get to the front. The key: Don't stop walking on these jaunts, even if the pup is exploring an area. Pup needs to learn that he is following you. Actually, what you'll find is that the security of being near you is much greater than anything that they are exploring, and they're always quick to catch up. Let the pup chase birds, let the pup point frogs, let the pup explore. If pup has spend too much time exploring an area. Don't say "no", say "Hup" instead, change direction, and pup will be catching up very quickly.

I also like ruffshooter's advice about the fetch game at this age. Make it fun and rewarding.

By the way, I currently have a 15-week old pup that is going through this same type of "training", and it is working beautifully. Except when she gets ahold of one of my wife's shoes, then pup get a little bit louder "no" from my significant other, than what I would ever do at this age. This is why pup likes me better.

[RayGubernat]

GSP Kota -

Read the books you think will help and watch some videos. If at all possible, hook up with an area pro trainer for a day or two of coaching.

Once you have seen a few different ways to go from here to there(and as you have already seen there are many ways), you need to decide which ONE way is best for you and your situation.

Sit down and make a plan. Decide what you want to end up with in the way of a bird dog, in other words, what exactly do you want your dog to do when it is fully trained. Then write down the steps you are going to take to get there. Not in any great detail, but what you are going to do first, then second , etc.

Then, pick a method to do step 1, and go do it. Continue from there.

As far as tools, you NEED a short checkcord or lead, a long stiff checkcord(20-25 ft) and a bird bag. That's what you NEED. The rest is all optional.

Helpful things are a carry cage for birds, a pinch or prong collar for steadying/staunching, manual or electronic bird releasers of some kind, a whistle, an e-collar with both momentary and continuous stim, a beeper or bell.

The three biggest training aids are PATIENCE, PREPARATION and most importantly, A SENSE OF HUMOR.

It ain't rocket science. Don't get all stressed out about it. A well bred bird dog comes with all the skills necessary to do what you want, even if you don't know, right now, exactly what you want. The dog knows. He really does. It is bred in him. He is the hunter, he is the one with the nose. You just need to convince the dog to do it with you and for you. Make friends with him, get him to go with you and look for you and come when you call and you will be just fine.

Good luck and have fun.

RayG

[GSP Kota]

Thank you all for the quick responses. I guess my word choice for overwhelemd was probably incorrect. I am not really anxious about the stuff out there. It is just that there is SO MUCH stuff out there that it makes solid decisionmaking tough. I am not a billionaire so I want ot feel secure in the equipment purchases that I make. I want for all the stuuf that I buy to be useful and appropriate to the task within the stlye of dog that I want to produce. But I guess that that is probably the goal of most on this board. Fortunately enough i have several open fields where I live, although I'd have to look hard for quail here. I live in South Florida. By the way. However, I hunt in Arkansas when on vacation. And I will be hunting this dog up there for Pheasant. It will probably be wierd training for Pheasant with an almost nonexistant pheasant population in my entire state. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Thanks again and feel free to add to this post if you have more input. Just because i replied once doesn't mean that I want the advice to end. Have a great day.

[helly]

Here's my 2 cents worth.

Keep it simple. Only teach one command at a time and don't try to teach another till the first command is learned and known. When the command is followed thru properly reward with praise and petting, not treats. If the command isn't followed thru properly no praise.

I would get a few books and think thru what you want your dog to do with each command. Different books give you different ideas of what you want the dog to do. I know you won't teach sit or stay, but my original sit command meant stay also.... that's what he learned so any time someone would tell him to sit, he would do what he was told and just stay there. Point is think thru what you want each command to do.

I had my dog hunting at 4 months he wasn't backing the pointers, but he was bust'n there birds out. I was criticized a lot at the time... till last year, and this year, they are all going to see.

Always remember that if the dog isn't doing what you want him to do that means you didn't train him right or he's not understanding. Instead of getting mad, call it a day and ask questions on a forum or read about the command in a couple other books to get a different prospective. If the dog knows what he's supposed to be doing and he's not doing it, end the training right then and there on a positive note, even if it's just a come and give him praise and call it a day. Everyone has a bad day so does a dog.

when my dog has a really good training day, I may bring it up a couple of times thru the night about what a good dog he was training today he seems to dig it and wants to please.

signed I'm not a pro, I just read a few books, took some insight from a all the books, gundog and waterdog are my bibles and usually only asked questions from owners of dogs I've seen work and liked how they work. Haven't used a shock collar and don't need it.

[Ruffshooter]

A couple of other things to think about.

Look at many books DVD's etc. (BUT ONLY FOLLOW ONE). If not you will get confused, anxious, etc then your pup will get confused and anxious and will not have a chance.

I also teach whoa at the food bowl and at the door.

When In the field and you see your pup coming to you on its own and its close you can give the here or come command. This takes a lot of knowing your dog to know what is on his mind at that particular time. (Associative training)

Normally you only give a command you can that you can control the result or enforce and do that.

For you, Watch that little pup, It will teach you alot. Learn how to read your dog. And finally timing is everything.

Good luck,
Rick

[Better Birddogs]

No sounds like whoa and thats a word I stay away from.

[DoubleB20]

Start your pigeon coop now. I waited until I was ready for them and then I had to wait for the birds be homers so they could be reused. Pigeons are lots of fun too.

[Ruffshooter]

Never have had any issues with the word whoa.

[EddieF]

Boy this is an excellent thread! My new soon-to-be pup is only two weeks old tomorrow, but I'm spending a lot of time on this site trying to get prepared before she gets here. The original poster here asked a lot of the same questions I have, and the replies are really great. So I'll watch this carefully, hope you don't mind me tagging along for the ride!

[Sharon]

Welcome to the forum.
We're all on that same ride . It's called learning. The ride should only end when you take your last breath. Ask any questions you want. Someone will give you a fair answer.