How many birds? / How many days?

Better Birddogs

Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by Better Birddogs » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:26 am

kninebirddog wrote:and ...As for singing which is basically hacking a dog around the field ...Sure glad I don't hunt woth people like that...would make for a miserable after noon to have to listen to someone making noise all day :wink:

You obviously don't hunt with folks who have big running dogs. My dogs run big to the front and need to know where I am at times. My dogs handle off my voice when I can't see them. Any intelligent handler with a big running dog knows this. Voice inflection is everything to a big running dog.

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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by kninebirddog » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:40 am

Nope ...I won't wild bird hunt like that.... if I end up with a singer or hacker I will go different direction to hunt..it is annoying to have to listen to it...

So it is MY personal preference to enjoy a nice day out in the open and not listen to a bunch of noise I realize people think it is fun to have to yip and hollar all day...Glad you have fun more power to you...No need to say it is better or argue the point...my dog finds birds I enjoy my day...and that is all the counts to me :wink:

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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by jetto » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:02 pm

and ...As for singing which is basically hacking a dog around the field ...Sure glad I don't hunt woth people like that...would make for a miserable after noon to have to listen to someone making noise all day..

>>Funny how people get different impressions of things. I've never found singing to be offensive in the least and we hit anywhere from 8-10 field trials each season. Perhaps they do it differently in different types of trials? These are AKC horseback and walking trials I'm talking about. I've never heard anyone singing while hunting. I have heard some hacking going on, lol...

I didn't understand the singing until our pro explained it and threatened me with bodily harm if I didn't open my mouth and let my dog know he was doing good when he was way out in front of me- but once I understood it - it all made sense.

We don't sing when we are hunting because it is a different game we are playing then at a slower pace and generally utilizing MUCH more ground but again at a much more relaxed pace. We're not power hunters, lol....I don't use a bell while trialing but we've used bells in the past when hunting because of the heavier cover. Different strokes for different games I guess. But we certainly do sing when field trialing with our dogs and since I get to help with training I also sing when we're running someone at the trainers or at home. As far as it being the same thing as hacking I don't agree. We were taught to sing to the dogs to let them know that they are doing good, no need to check in, keep on a-goin....Anyone who has met our pro knows he's anything BUT a hacker. I doubt most people would consider my husband one either and our two gun dogs are kind handling dogs- that still get sung to when on course to let them know "things are peachy-keen, keep on going". Come to think of it- most of our FT friends sing also and I don't consider them hacking either. And believe me I've heard some hacking going on out there and there is a DEFINITE difference! :wink:

Kristi

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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by Karen » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:08 pm

LOVE your new Avatar Kristi!!!
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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by jetto » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:13 pm

Thanks!!! After our training session the other day I like looking at that picture to remind myself that he really IS a bird dog, lol....one of those "what the heck were ya thinkin dawg???" days, lol...

ps: on the singing issue I have a lousy singing voice so my singing is more like a chanting...maybe that's why i'm more relaxed these days! LOL! kristi

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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:17 pm

It seems there are two choices when you are working a dog whether hunting or trialing. You either hack them or you sing to them when they are out of sight for a time. When I sing the dog knows where I am and doesn't have to be called back in. Direction changes are no problem as the dog can hear when you change.

I don't want to listen to someone hollering at their dog constantly but an occasional sing would be hard to find fault with I would think. Just sounds like a pleasant form of communication with your dog. When the dog is close and in sight I like the quiet also.

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Calling and singing in the field.

Post by RayGubernat » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:35 pm

Maybe it is just me...I don't know.

I sing to my dogs when handling off horseback because I want the dog to be out there and stay out there...on the edge. When I want the dog to come back in and look me up, I shut up.

If I run in a gundog stake, I am pretty quiet, first because I want the dogs to stay relatively close, because that is what a gundog should do and also because the standard calls for marking down the dog for excessive hacking and noise from the handler.

So, if I want the dog to stay in contact. like when I am hunting, or competing in a walking stake, I try to be as quiet as I can. The dog, to maintain contact, has to stay within eysight (his, not mine). If the dog is out of touch and I want to change direction, I will either wait for the dog to pop into view, so it can see what I am doing and where I'm going, or I will call or sing, throwing my voice in the direction that I wish to go, cueing the dog into the direction change.

When I am training or huntng, my dogs ALWAYS wear the e-collar, just for safety sake, so if I really need to turn or bring in my dog and it doesn't respond to the whistle, a little zippedi-do-da gets it's attention.

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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by jetto » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:48 pm

So my post isn't miscontrued as is apt to happen on this board....I don't mean we are constantly running our mouths to our dogs, lol...But the occasional "ataboy" or 'atagirl' to let them know all is well....that i consider singing...HEY HEY HEY YOU HEY YOU HEY YOU YOU SOB constantly throughout the brace I consider hacking...<g>...Kristi

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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by kninebirddog » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:01 pm

Oh ...i have heard the singing....at HB trials.....When a dog needs to be to the front and shown ..i can understand it....but ones that from the time of release to time of pick up sing....Just not my cup of tea

I understand the Why.....of it....but watching a dog move forward and works off the handler with out the need of the consistant singing is much more impressive
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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by jetto » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:11 pm

The dog, to maintain contact, has to stay within eysight (his, not mine).

>>But out here there are some grounds where if the dog kept within eyesight of you- he'd only be 50' in front because of the hills. The singing is a way to keep the dog going without him having to come back and check in for us- especially when on foot. I think this is one of those issues that it depends on where you trial, if you're on foot, if you're on horseback, how big the grounds are, etc. And again not a constant singing- that is best left to the AA guys who need it to maintain contact. But the occasional "word" to let the dog know you're still with him, etc. Kristi

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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by Kiki's Mom » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:31 pm

And believe me I've heard some hacking going on out there and there is a DEFINITE difference! :wink:
because that is what a gundog should do and also because the standard calls for marking down the dog for excessive hacking and noise from the handler.
These people have pretty much summed it up. There is a BIG difference between singing a little to your dog to let him know he is doing well and should keep doing things right and the just plain screeching and hollaring that is done all the way around a course all in the name of "singing"<GG>).

I'm not at all opposed to singing as long as it is done in proper context ....
Singing should be done for AA dogs of course and I EXPECT to hear the handler talking to his dog when they are way the heck out on the edge of a big All Age course! IT is a necessity!! But here in the East, where the grounds are tight and the cover is thick , that gun dog had better be handling KINDLY and hunting for the handler at all times. Getting too verbal and making too much noise just is not my idea of how a good gun dog ought to be working......ESPECIALLY on a course that the dog knows well!!!! But again this JMHO.
I apparently assumed wrong when Brian said something to the effect of "If he doesn't know whoa, how do you teach him to back?"
He never said that. Sorry you misunderstood. He did ask you if your dog was not familiar with the whoa command, how did you caution him or get him stopped if you needed to. But you already explained that too. Your dog is now at the point where he no longer ever needs to be cautioned as he now backs perfectly every time. Which is excellent.

Again....different trainers, different methods and as long as the methods produced the desired results, who cares??

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Re: How many birds? / How many days?

Post by Reech » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:02 pm

I ran my pup in a JH test in WI. My brace mate sang the entire time. I never heard of anything more annoying in my life.

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