Training a Springer Spaniel, I have questions?

[mikej959@yahoo.com]

I have a 14 week old English Springer Spaniel. I bought the Gun Dog Magazine DVD called "Training Spaniels". Is this a good DVD to follow? What do you guys say is the best way to train a springer? I was planning on taking her out in the field this weekend and try the quartering technique. How long should work on training her each day?

Thanks

[gonehuntin']

Training a spaniel and a retriever (like a lab) are almost identical. There are some finishing touches that very, and most don't train springers on long blind retrieves, though they are fully capable of learning them. The other stuff though, obedience, force, quartering and sitting (hupping) to flush are identical to the Lab.

[Killer Instinct]

Welcome to the forum - we don't have many "springer" folks on here, so I'm glad your on board! Can't tell you anything at all regarding the DVD - haven't seen it ... You might want to invest in the book by Mike Smith called "Working Cockers & Springers"- it's a good tool to train from. Gone huntin' is correct - Lab training & springer training are almost the same, with of course some exceptions (quartering, etc). Regarding your length of training - I'd keep it short, since she's only 14 weeks old - 5 to 10 minutes (if you can get that far without losing her attention). One of my springers is almost 5 mos old - I'm lucky if she hups for 30 seconds - it's hard for her to sit still! She's a bundle of energy, which I'm sure yours is too .... Good Luck!

[Fraze]

I am new to the forum as well and have a 10 month old Springer that I have been working with as well and this site has certainly been a wealth of knowledge!

I just had the chance to try Milo out on pigeons for the first time last weekend and the only thing he struggled with was an actual retrieve on one. He was fine with a wing and slowly worked up to a full bird but tended to drop it about 30 feet away when bringing it back. Is force fetching the best solution to fixing this?

Jamie

[IANative]

Hup!, by James Spencer
Urban Gun Dog, by Tony Roettger & Chip Schleider
Retriever Training for Spaniels, by Pam Kadlec

I also like Retriever Training- A Back to Basics Approach, by Robert Milner. This book is geared towards labs, but is an excellent book for obedience and non-slip retrieving. Beware, however, spaniels can be much more tempermental than labs. My experience is they require a softer approach. Good luck!

[Killer Instinct]

..... He was fine with a wing and slowly worked up to a full bird but tended to drop it about 30 feet away when bringing it back. Is force fetching the best solution to fixing this?

Jamie

Hi Jamie - I was also having the same problem that you have - My Abby dropping retrieves. I've since sent her out to a professional trainer, who is working out the retrieve issue & she's slowly getting there. This is the method he used (he sent me the material - not sure who wrote it ):


Bench Training Basics

Bench training is a useful tool in training retrieving dogs. The bench has a wide variety of uses from feeding your dog on it, to grooming, clipping, cutting toe nails, giving medicines, teaching dog to sit & stay, to the more difficult task of fetch-hold & release. Most inexperienced trainers have little trouble with sit, come, stay basics of training but the puzzle of getting the dog retrieving properly to hand is another matter. The bench should be 16-18 inches wide but any bench that you have around the house may do, such as a work bench in the basement or garage on top of dog kennel, sleeping quarters, etc. Before running wire cable the length of the bench 10" above dog's head, put a snap swivel throught the cable so it can slide freely along length of bench. You'll need a choke chain or cord to go from collar to snap swivel. The tension between the dog's collar & wire cable should be enough to keep the dog sitting or standing and not to be able to put his head down or to lay down. The dog should be able to move freely along the bench. If you wish to keep the dog from moving attach another rope or chain to collar & hook it to back wall or other suitable spot. Now the dog can sit upright or stand but cannot run length of bench. You will also need a hardwood dowel. It should be 10" long, 1.5" diameter, and dumbbell shaped. This will make it easier for the dog to pick it up. A broom handle with tape on both ends will work fine.
Get the dog comfortable on the bench by feeding him there. Petting him & praising him while he is on the bench will all make him enjoy being up there. Lengthening the rope or chain between cable & collar will allow the dog to be able to reach his food when you feed him on the bench.
When the dog is comfortable being on the bench you are ready to start bench retrieving. With a young dog, 6-8 mos old is a good age to start. Hook the dog to the cable with enough tension to keep his head up and the dog standing or sitting. Say the word fetch and put the dowel in the dog's mouth making sure that the dog's lips are not between teeth and dowel causing discomfort. If the dog tries to spit the dowel out, put your thumb under the dog's chin keeping his head in the air and mouth closed so he cannot spit out the dowel and say the word hold several times while he is holding the dowel so that he will get to know this command.
Do not leave the dowel in his mouth very long; 10 to 15 seconds for the first few sessions. Say the word dead when you remove the dowel from his mouth and praise him. If the dog somehow spits out or drops the dowel, pick it up and say the word fetch. Put the dowel back in his mouth and put your thumb under his jaw, again keeping his head up. Say the word dead, remove the dowel and give praise. Remember at no time should you get mad at the dog for dropping the dowel; do not raise your voice at the dog, simply repeat the earlier steps.
Bench work is a system of repetition. The dog learns to hold, fetch and release by repeating this process over and over, not through any pain or harshness. This is a good tip to learn for all your training with the dog.
With your first few sessions the dog may not want to open his mouth for you to place the dowel in. Gently grasp upper & lower jaw open & place the dowel in his mouth.
Bench work can be done once or twice a day, morning & evening, with 4 or 5 retrieves done with each session. It should take two or three weeks to get the young dog doing job properly. Do not do any other retrieving other than bench work until the whole program is completed. After 2 or 3 weeks you can start encouraging the dog to walk along the bench with the dowel in his mouth.
You can also have the dog sit while you walk to the other end of bench & encourage the dog to come to you. Remember he is still on the overhead cable during all of the bench work. If he spits dowel out simply repeat fetch, hold, dead. As he improves you can start leaving the dowel in his mouth for long periods of time. I like to brush the dog while he is holding the dowel; petting & praising him all make him very happy holding the dowel perfectly for you.
You can alos leave the room for short periods of time but for the first few times you should listen by the door to make sure he does not drop the dowel. If you hear the dowel drop, go back in the room & repeat fetch, hold. He will soon be very reliable & will hold the dowel for a half hour or more while you are out of the room.
You will find the dog to be very happy on the bench with you there with him. You are at eye level with him & spending quality time there building a bond with him that he will never forget. As he will never forget his lessons on the bench, this is a no-lose system. You will have a perfect retriever when you are finished. You should also get the dog used to you touching the dowel while it is in his mouth without him dropping it. You say the word hold while you touch it. If he drops it, put the dowel back in his mouth, fetch, hold. He should not release the dowel until you give the command dead. The dog learns quickly that even if you pull gently on the dowel he will not release it until you say dead.
When the dog is doing everything so far 100%, approximaely 3 to 4 weeks, it is time to take him off of the bench. For the first few sessions, hook a long cord from the cable wire overhead to the dog collar. He is now on the ground in front of bench but still the tension from cord keeps his head up. Make sure the dog still goes through all commands 100%.
You can now put the dog on a short lead, taking him outside with the dowel still in his mouth. Encourage the dog to walk along with you with the dowel in his mouth. If he spits the dowel out - reach out, put the dowel back in mouth, fetch and hold, keep a little tension on the lead so that he cannot put his head down or lay down. After a few sessions he will walk on the lead happily around the yard with the dowel in his mouth. Put a longer cord on the dog & get him to sit with the dowel in his mouth, and move a few feet away. Encourage him to come to you. Gradually increase the distance. Make sure the dog is coming directly to you. If he tries to move to one side or other pull in the cord & encourage him to come directly to you and then decrease the distance until he will come directly to you. Remember don't finish these last few steps in a day; take about a week giving the dog plenty of time to get confident with holding the dowel off of the bench, walking with it to bringing it directly back to you.
When the dog is doing all these steps well in the backyard it is time to put him back on bench. Hook him back on the cable and replace the dowel with a retrieving dummy or ball. Go through fetch-hold-dead command for a few sessions making sure the dog responds 100% to all commands. When you ae confident that he is ready, take him off the bench & put him on a lead. Go through yard training with the lead & long cord. When he is doing this 100%, unhook the cord, throw the dummy a few feet away and allow him to go retrieve it. He should go right to it and pick it up. Then encourage him to bring it directly to you. He should do this without a problem. Don't overdo throwing the dummy and having him retrieve it to you just because you want to show all your neighbors what a good retriever you have. Dogs get bored, especially puppies 6-8 mos old.
When he is retrieving the dummy 100% in the yard, put him back on the bench & replace the dummy with a dead pigeon. Give him a few sessions so that he will hold the dead pigeon 100%. When he is ready, put him back in the yard, go through yard work, leads, etc. When he is doing this 100% you can take him off lead, throw a dead pigeon, and he should retrieve it 100%. You are now ready to use a live clip wing pigeon. Give him a few sessions so that he will hold the live clip wing pigeon 100%. Remember the live clip wing pigeon is something really exciting for the dog so he may drop the pigeon. Put it back in his month, fetch, hold. when he is 100% with it, go back to yard on lead getting him to walk around with it in his mouth. When he is doing this 100% you are ready to throw a clip wing bird. Throw the bird, and let the dog retrieve it. Do not call him to come to you until he has picked the bird up and has it in his mouth, then call him to come to you. He should come directly to you . When you are receiving the bird or dummy form the dog after a retrieve do not reach or grab for it; get the dog used to coming in and sitting with it in front of you where you can receive it properly. He should be used to doing this after being on the bench. You might want to make him sit with the bird or dummy in mouth for different lenghts of time getting him used to holding & waiting for you to reach down & take it from him.
You are now ready to move from the yead into the field. Try a few short retrieves with a dummy, making sure he understands he has to come in perfectly even though he is now out in the field instead of the boring old yard. The next session out try him with a dead pigeon or two. When he is retrieving dummies & dead birds 100% in field you are ready for live clip wing pigons. Make sure he has the bird in his mouth before calling him back to you.
Walk a few feet away & get him to come directly to you with the bird in mouth. Remember again don't give the dog more than 2 to 3 retrieves in a row at any time. You don't want him to get bored with retrieving. You want him as happy and as excited about retrieving as you are at showing off your new 100% retriever. As the dog gets older and you are getting ready to start the dog on pheasants, put him back on the bench with a dead pheasant and get him used to holding the new heavier bird. When he is holding the dead bird 100% you are ready to introduce him to live pheasants.
The important thing is to remember with bench training is, as with all training with dogs, to make sure the dog understands everything that you are trying to teach him. That is why you must take the time to get the dog perfect with the wooden dowel. The dog is never going to be expected to hunt for wooden sticks so before you go on to dummies and birds he has to be 100% in understanding and doing what you expect. So take the 3 - 4 weeks of repetition to get him. Don't worry, he'll like all the attention and you'll enjoy how quickly he can learn.

[Sharon]

You made a good purchase. That is an excellent DVD.

[Gabe]

I would suggest Edward Martin's DVD's Spaniel Training Master Class, they're very "english" and a little more laid back then most.

[47sgs]

I don't presently have springer spaniels, but until a couple years ago, I hunted, trialed, and had as pets, two male springers. We got our first one 25 years ago, and as they got old, we would replace it with a young one, always having two. They were all just awesome dogs, and the only reason I changed to English setters is pheasant hunting became harder to come by, chukar hunting is readily available, and I wanted to try a pointing dog.
Springers seemed to be really easy to train. They're extremely people oriented and badly want to please. However, when young, their exuberance and drive often overcomess what you want them to do. The reason I decided to respond to this post is this: I don't know about the DVD you mentioned, and to write all there is about training a springer is too lengthy, but I found great enjoyment, commoradary, and knowledge by joining our local springer spaniel organization. The particular group I joined was the NW English Spriner Spaniel Assoc., but there is a vast network of clubs around the country that are available. The local members train as groups, do fun trials, help each other with dog issues. It would be a perfect place for a new handler with a new puppy to get involved. I can't tell you how much I learned about training and maintaining my springers from these people. Even if trialing is of no interest, most of these people are just dog lovers that are pushing to get the most out of their dogs, and I found them very willing to help me when I needed it. Plus it gave me very knowledgeable people to train with and on the job learning. Get on the internet, and see if there is a club that you could get involved with close to you. It was fun to learn from people with common interest.