pigeon catch

[basspow]

my gwp has caught to many pigeons during my trying to break him. all his catches have been my fault. I think we will stop the pigeon training until after hunting season. we will continue with the whoa training. I won't try to stop him when he breaks,by yelling whoa. is this the way to go?

[wems2371]

When is he catching them? Is he doing a quick point and snatch, or snatching them during the flush without holding point, or busting in on them without even pointing? Do you have a launcher? Launcher drills could help you tons. If he busts, creeps, moves a muscle during the point--you launch the bird. The launchers also get the birds up in the air out of reach quickly. Even a $49.00 manual (rope activated) launcher could do wonders for you. Denise

[basspow]

He points and will hold for 10 to 20 seconds, I have been planting fairly heavy cover and letting
him range out. he usually catches the bird because I am unable to get to him before he breaks.
I use electronic launchers.

[phillipsgsp]

When he starts to break launch the bird before he gets to close to it. He will start to steady himself with repetition. Are you useing homers? Do not shoot any birds for him until he holds through the flush and shot if you are goin to finish him out to the fall of the bird. Just don't let him catch the bird weather it be keeping him on a check cord or if he knows whoa with the e collar, just do not allow him to do it. He needs to learn that the only way he gets a bird to fetch is to hold point until you flush and the gun brings it down. I am guessing that he is a pretty high drive dog and it sounds like he needs a reality check that you are the boss and he is self hunting. If he knows whoa than simply work him into a bird on a 50 ft rope and restrain him when he breaks and overlay the whoa command when you are stoping him from busting the bird. Timing is everything when doing this. After you stop him have him stand there for a few moments and realize what just happend, he broke, the bird flew off, and he was not able to get the bird cause he was stopped and whoaed. You can only do it this way if the dog totaly know the whoa command, if he does'nt I would stop all bird work and whoa break him completly, then move back to birds.

Chad

[wems2371]

Ditto Chad.

You've got to catch him the instant he moves a muscle (and I mean that literally) from his 10-20 second solid point..............and launch that bird. If he's too far away for you to know and be in control of what's happening when he hits the point..............then you have to put the checkcord on him so that you can be in control of the scenario. I haven't done it yet, but have also read and seen on video about setting up multiple launchers--so that the dog learns to be staunch because there might be more than one bird in the same area.

Just curious, but how far out do you think he is pointing from these birds? If he's tracking or moving past first scent, he might be getting pretty darn close to being on top of your planted birds..............and temptation getting the best of him. That again would be back to the checkcord, and whoaing or popping the launcher when you see him get first scent. Denise

[phillipsgsp]

Using pigeons, the dog should stop and point them from at least 6 to 10 ft. most my dogs will point a stinky ol pigeon from at least 15 ft or more. The whole benifit of having and using the remote launcher is so that you can launch the bird from wherever you are when the dog moves, wether it is 30yrds or 100 yrds you can control the flush. Try putting the birds close to where you are going to release the dog from for a while. This way you can see everything that happens when it happens. Again if the dog makes game and he walks in more than a few steps without pointing launch the bird. He will learn to stop and trust his nose and that by crowding/roading in on the bird causes the flush and it is over. Let us know how it goes, there is some other things you can do if that does not get him going in the right direction.

Chad

[RayGubernat]

Basspow -

Based on what you have written, since you have elec. remote launchers, I would immediately start launching birds as soon as the dog gets in the area. Your dog has obvioulsy learned that it can road in with impunity and evn catch the birds. That ain't good. You have to, in my opinkion...back the dog off its birds, instilling some semblance of respect for them. Right now the dog has none.

I personally would not let the dog range out, but rather back up to having him on a checkcord. If he is roading in an catching birds, he has not earned the right or the trust to be running free.

If you come into a trap crosswind, you should pop the trap the instant the dog gives you a signal that he smells the bird. Actually in your dog's case, I would not wait for a signal, but would pop the trap and instant before th dog gets into the scent cone and if the dog doesn't stop and stand to the flush, pop him with the checkcord and make him stand. he needs to understand that the bird will get up and get gone. He needs, unfortunately, to unlearn what you have allowed him to learn about catching birds. That may not be so easy.

RayG

[Don]

I'm with Ray except for ccing it into birds. I don't do that but you might want to and it is fine. But your timing is way off if the dog is close enough to catch the bird. Imagine a circle around the bird that clears the bird by about 10 yds in all directions. The dog intrudes on that circle, pop the bird, scent of no scent pop the bird! By ccing you can bring the dog in cross wind and there is no other way now. It cannot intrude on the 10 yd circle and don't give it a chance to establish point, it must beat you. The dog winds the bird, you pop the bird. The dog must beat you!

The great thing about remote launchers is that they let you be the bird. But you have to be the bird, not a trainer thinking, "just one more step". The wild bird won't think that, neither should you. There may be times a dog will pass within 10 yds of a wild bird and it doesn't flush, so what, you flush the bird. If only we could control wild birds as we can pigeons in a trap.

A word of caution, if your dog is much closer than 10 yds from the bird, your reflex's are probably not good enough to recognize that the dog is going and to react in time before the dog puts the rush on the bird. Very very important to learn to read your dog. Before the dog moves, it will have to collect the mussels in it's front end and back end, you need to learn to read when that happens. You'll see it but you have to look. Just before the rush, many dogs will lower their tail just a bit, watch for it. Watch for a shift of weight from the front to the back, they can't rush with the weight on the front end. Just before they collect and shift weight, many dogs will lean into it just a bit, pop the bird. Learn to read your dog, learn to read your dog, learn to read your dog!!!