First Steps on E Collar

[GSPGauge]

My dog is now a bit over 6 months, and I got a Tri Tronics Sport G3.

Any pointers on using it etc? So far we have worked a bit on sitting with it.....works ok but he seems to want to run in circles when shocked and barks at it.....but doesn't whine.... Ty in advance.

[bwjohn]

GSP,
i think that it may be a little early for the ecollar. I am new at this but, I like the idea of letting the puppies be a puppy for a little while. I waited quite a bit longer to introduce the ecollar. I am sure that some may have a different opinion but I was not in to much of a hurry to get that far into training. Plus, there has been a learning curve for me with everything, this is my first pointing breed dog.

brandon

[AZ Brittany Guy]

You need to be really careful with this process. I turned my first Britt into a blinker trying to use it without help. Your pup is too young for the ecollar and like the other post said, let the pup be a pup for now. Go ahead and start training your pup on a check cord to come to you and go with you in short gentel but firm training sessions. Go to a seminar of a reputable dog trainer ( best money you will ever spend). I used Rick Smith and he was GREAT. Find a training buddy that uses the same method that you learned to partner with. You will likely meet someone at the seminar that lives close to you and you think you can get along with. Don't try to mix training approaches (they all are propably good but pick just one). There are a lot of training tapes available but many are too general to get everything you need. For example, I found Rick Smiths DVD's more valuable to me after the seminar. Good luck and don't go too fast ( I remember I wanted to do every thing right away - thats not good) and like the Doctors say "do no harm".

[GSPGauge]

I have not been in a hurry to do the collar but he is getting worse on "come" he knows VERY well what it means. He will come when we are on our trail walks 9 times out of 10. But if we are in a field or when he gets out the front door he will not come for anything...he is very stubborn. He also knows what sit means and again will only do it if HE feels like it. Then he gets upset about you trying to force him to sit or stop running around the house with your things, and come back biting and growling, so that is why I went to the collar at the early age,as I have no idea how to MAKE him do something he has set in his mind not to do. lol Never ever another puppy in my house.

[westexasrepublic]

Do some check cord work first... put the E-Collar away for another day. Stimulation is only for reinforcement of a command they all ready know but choose not to follow. So if he dosnt know the command (I mean really really know it) you're essentially just zapping him, and he dosnt know why. He's not "stubborn" he's just being a puppy for now...2 cents...

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Most pups go through a stage where they defy you. Just a few suggestions...never give a command you can't enforce.......forget about the sit command it is counter productive for a pointing dog to learn it......teach your dog to stand still .....teach your dog to heel....anticipate, anticipate, anticipate. After a while you know what your pup is going to do i.e. bolting through a door. He is just telling you he wants to be boss. You know what is coming so set up the situation so you can control and correct it. Go to Seminar and bring your dog and your list of questions and problems.

Good Luck

[pakratt]

GSP-- thanks for bringing this up for us noobs--

I get a allot out of reading other post before asking some of my questions-- this was really helpful because I picked up an e-collar for my pup. I had planned to use it to reinforce-- but after looking at this-- I'm thinking that 1) he's too young and 2) I need to get help and instruction first.

Thanks guys--

[topher40]

The E-collar should be introduced with yard work, IMO. If the dog is coming 9 out of 10 times you need to go back to the yard. Dogs that come through here never see the field, even for dry runs, until they have a SOLID grasp on their yard work. Right now I would only let the pup wear the collar, leave the transmitter in the house and turn the collar off. Wait till the pup is ready for the yard work, most are by 8-11 months. Best advice given was to get a training partner, thats the best thing a new dog owner can do. Good luck!

[RayGubernat]

The first step with an e-collar is a flat collar with a checkcord attached to it and having the youngster get used to that pressure. The next step is either a wonder lead, or a checkcord attached to either a prong collar or pinch collar(or choke collar which I do not recommend). Once the dog is used to, conditioned to AND responding to that, then it is ready for an e-collar.

The above is assuming you are planning to use the e-collar to correct the dog for something it already knows how to do and is refusing.

If your intention is to used the e-collar for avoidance training, disregard the above as it does not apply to avoidance training which I do not do.

RayG

[Aggie007]

Most pups go through a stage where they defy you. Just a few suggestions...never give a command you can't enforce.......forget about the sit command it is counter productive for a pointing dog to learn it......teach your dog to stand still ....

The E-collar should be introduced with yard work, IMO. If the dog is coming 9 out of 10 times you need to go back to the yard. Right now I would only let the pup wear the collar, leave the transmitter in the house and turn the collar off. Wait till the pup is ready for the yard work, most are by 8-11 months.

That is good info above, I hope you listen. I start letting my pups wear the collar at around 5 months and don't actually start using it till they show they are mature enough to handle it and know exactly what each command means, some can start as early as 8 months, some over a year. They have to learn that a correct action turns off the collar, so correct introduction and timing is key.

In the for sale forum you can get a set of the "Perfect Start/Finish" dvds, they would do you good.

[RayGubernat]

I have not been in a hurry to do the collar but he is getting worse on "come" he knows VERY well what it means. He will come when we are on our trail walks 9 times out of 10. But if we are in a field or when he gets out the front door he will not come for anything...he is very stubborn. He also knows what sit means and again will only do it if HE feels like it. Then he gets upset about you trying to force him to sit or stop running around the house with your things, and come back biting and growling, so that is why I went to the collar at the early age,as I have no idea how to MAKE him do something he has set in his mind not to do. lol Never ever another puppy in my house.

Gage -

I have to disagree with your assessment. Your pup does NOT know what come really means. Come means here, right now, every single time, no screwing around, no excuses, no exceptions...PERIOD...END OF STORY. I

It is an obedience command that you must insist on absolute and unconditional compliance to...or you got nothin'. The dog must have no option in its mind but instant compliance. if he does not, he needs more yardwork and needs to stay out of the field unless wearing a checkcord. In all likelhood he is getting worse becasue you are permitting him to get worse by tolerating the behavior. The more times you give the command and it is ignored, the more you are teaching the dog that compliance is optional.

It has to be that in the yard, off lead and crisp, instant and absolute, before you go out in the field or on a trail, off lead. if the compliance is not absolute, the dog does not belong off the checkcord.

I actually use the come command very little with my dogs, in the field. It is not that important to me. However when I hit the come in whistle, they had better beat feet right to me...or there will be heck to pay. Most often I whoa the dog..go to it and take it by the collar or leash it.

Whoa is another command that is quite simply...not optional.

RayG

[SD Pheasant Slayer]

I have a GSP pup about the same age and he's been wearing his collar from 4 months old on. I put it on him whenever we went on a fun run so he learned to associate wearing the collar with fun things. He's been shocked only a couple times - once this past weekend when he chased a mule deer and refused to come (he does know his come command, and in the absence of a strong distraction like that, he's 100% compliant) and that was more a panic on my part than good training as he was showing no signs of stopping after a couple hundred yards. Now, I'm no expert on anything really, but I did overlay the collar on the checkcord for come at around 5 months old. Reading these posts, perhaps I got lucky in not screwing him up. Even then, it was set on level 1 and there was never any flinch or whimper, just enough to know that it came with a command. Good luck with your pup!

[blunder]

First you want to determine the dogs tolerance level. Set the collar to it's lowest level and start from there. You are looking for the slightest recognition that something happened. Your base setting is one click higher.

When CCing a dog you want the pup about 90% reliable on it's three basic motions. First you teach stationary (sit or whoa), next you teach moving away from you (kennel is the easiest) then you teach recall. THEN with the e-collar you proof the three motions in reverse order starting with recall. The main thing you want to accomplish (besides proofing the commands) is teaching the pup that the e-collar means exactly the same thing as it's normal collar and lead. All it is is a longer lead.
You will only get perfection when you demand perfection.

[Ditch__Parrot]

My dog is now a bit over 6 months, and I got a Tri Tronics Sport G3.

Any pointers on using it etc? So far we have worked a bit on sitting with it.....works ok but he seems to want to run in circles when shocked and barks at it.....but doesn't whine.... Ty in advance.

A lot of good info has already been posted but I thought I might throw in my 2 cents.

First I have to agree that teaching sit could be a mistake. It caused me quite a headache while teaching whoa. It's just one more thing to get confused about. I think if you must have sit I would wait untill after whoa is second nature to the dog.

2nd. I agree with whoever posted about just putting it on him and letting him get used to wearing it.

In the mean time work with a lead or check cord to teach commands. And after he has the commands down by lead or checkcord then overlay them with the e-collar. When first using it use both checkcord and e-collar. e-collar at the lowest stimulation that you get a response or just 1 hair higher as another poster suggested. Also Aggie gave great advise. TIMING IS KEY. Hit the constant stimulation button at the exact same time you give your command and let off when he responds correctly to the command. But once again, for this to work he has to already know the correct response to the command given.(example- give hear/come command and hit the button at same time , as soon as the dog turns toward you and takes first step your way let off the button.)
I also have to agree with Aggie about the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish Videos. They will be a great training tool ,very in depth. They show every little step of their training program using dogs that are in training, not already trained dogs.

3rd?? (lol) I have to respectfully disagree about age. I think 6 months if fine to start training. If you want to wait untill he matures you'll be waiting about 4 years for a GSP. Maybe only 3 if you are lucky.

Also if you haven't already done so take him out and let him run and play in areas that are similar to hunting conditions. That way it's nothing new to him down the road.

I have a GSP pup about the same age and he's been wearing his collar from 4 months old on. I put it on him whenever we went on a fun run so he learned to associate wearing the collar with fun things. He's been shocked only a couple times - once this past weekend when he chased a mule deer and refused to come (he does know his come command, and in the absence of a strong distraction like that, he's 100% compliant) and that was more a panic on my part than good training as he was showing no signs of stopping after a couple hundred yards. Now, I'm no expert on anything really, but I did overlay the collar on the checkcord for come at around 5 months old. Reading these posts, perhaps I got lucky in not screwing him up. Even then, it was set on level 1 and there was never any flinch or whimper, just enough to know that it came with a command. Good luck with your pup!

IMO you might have messed up here. Next time your dog is chasing something you don't want it to, Don't give any commands. Just hit constant stimulation at normal level and slowly turn it up until they stop. If you don't give the command then they won't associate the shock with you but with what they are chasing. When they think deer shock them it'll be quite some time before they try it again.

Last I'll add that it is my very strong opinion that you shouldn't ever use the e-collar as any sort of punishment. Unless ofcoarse you're the same kind of idiot that beats you're dogs. I've seen it a few times some-one will give a command holler and scream at the dog for not listening then shock the crap out of it and wonder why their dog took off for the hills.

[ESetterLove]

WOW! I can't believe how nice everyone has been to you about this. Either this post is a Joke or everyone is feeling kind this week.
I am not in the mood to handle you with "kid gloves"
Why would you use an e-collar on a young pup because it won't sit? If you can't enforce "SIT" at the age of 6 months without using a device.... your pup has no respect for you.

When you say "lol Never ever another puppy in my house" You might be right. You are not ready for a working dog .
I doubt you are ready for a lap dog either.

The ECollar should never be used this way!

I am no "Pro trainer" but here is my opinion.
E Collar is meant to be used as a tool. Not a punishment or a way to make a dog do what you want it to do.
It is a tool used to redirect a dog that has lost focus in the great outdoors.
One should never hit the SHOCK when a simple Beep will do.
You should Never use the collar indoors as I assume you do. (correct me if I am wrong)
Gun Dog's are like an ADHD child. They need positive interaction, plenty of exercise and lots of praise when they do well. If they don't get this, they are going to be defiant and run around while you try to Chase them down.

If you can't handle your pup without the use of an ecollar at 6 months, you are not ready for a "Best friend/Hunting Buddy"
Would not recomend an "Out of the Box and fully trained" at this point either.

From a Puppy's point of view:
Sit?
Give me a reason.
OUCH!
Not a good reason for me. Perhaps a treat/cookie?
Ouch! Zapped me again? I am going to piss you off even more now.
Stop YELLING at me, my ears are quite sensitive as if you didn't know. (Dog's hearing is how many times better than us?)
OUCH! You must be kidding me!
This not fun! See Ya Later!

[Sharon]

There is so much to learn with a first dog. I understand your situation. I won't tell you all the things I did wrong.

The key for me is to be consistent. From when pup was 10 weeks old, everytime he came to me I used the word "come".

Every time he didn't come when called, I got up and had him come. I never asked him to do anything that I wasn't ready to get off the couch and enforce.

Now , at 2, he doesn't even think about coming or not. I say come. He's there.

Pick a command and be consistent. Pup may need to have it enforced a thousand times , but you have to be consistent.

[GSPGauge]

WOW! I can't believe how nice everyone has been to you about this. Either this post is a Joke or everyone is feeling kind this week.
I am not in the mood to handle you with "kid gloves"

At least I asked questions hmm? I didn't just go out and shock my dog over and over I tried one day for a bit and came here to ask about it. Doesn't sound very mean imo. :roll: My dog is NOT a hunting companion. Anyway that is all I deem necessary to answer to you.

[GSPGauge]

There is so much to learn with a first dog. I understand your situation. I won't tell you all the things I did wrong.

.

Thanks for being understanding. It's a lot of work to make something do what you want, and I admit I am not as consistent as I could be. I am loyal to walking him but get frustrated with asking him to do things that he knows and having no way of making him listen. This week he has been much more tolerant. I suppose I expect him to be mature, lol. He is so much better then 4 months ago though. So I hope time and just continuing working with him will be the key.

Thank you everyone for your nice replies and taking the time to share.