Force Fetch Transition to birds.

[donpetstop]

I have a 2 year GSP that I have FF trained. He does fine on table and ground when I throw the bumper or dead bird. Can't seem to grasp the concept of fetching the birds that I shoot and don't throw. I have corrected him in the field by pinching ear and forcing him to pick bird up then walk around and give the bird to me. The next bird seems the same thing he goes to the bird sniffs it mouths it but won't pick up and retrieve. What am I doing wrong?
Don

[gonehuntin']

Sounds like you didn't do a thorough job of ff with him. If you don't want to revisit it, try this. Have a helper stand out there, shoot a gun, and throw a bird. Do this in your yard, not the field. Try to make it fun for him and jazz it up. If he does this, put a bird in a launcher, whoa the dog at your side, pop the launcher and send him. It's ok to send him when the bird's in the air.

Sounds like he's confused over some issue, I'm just not sure what with the little you've posted.

Have you tried popping a flyer from a launcher in the field and shooting it to see what he does?

Are you sure it's not the shot of the gun that isn't confusing him or hat he doesn't like?

[donpetstop]

I can try the launcher. He isn't gun shy in the least and I don't think that has confused him. I have fired the blank pistol and thrown everything from bumpers to dead birds and he retrieves to hand. He will take a line if I tell him to fetch and have thrown the bird or bumper . He just doesn't seem to understand the fetch part if I haven't thrown it.
Don

[wems2371]

Don, I'll prefix this with I'm a total amateur, not FFing, and on my first dog..........so I'm just asking here. Have you always thrown his retrieves for him? Have you ever done yard work where you've placed a dummy or pile of dummies and sent him after them, where he does not have a thrown item driving him forward. It sounds like he is dependent on you throwing and hasn't had the yardwork to give him independence or knowledge to go forth on his own. Again, I'm far from an expert. Denise

[Don]

I just read where someone wanted to know why an 8' table. I posted I'd like a longer one, it get's the dog moving. another thing about a longer table is you can put the buck at one end of the table and send the dog from the other so than the dog goes on command. Denise mentioned that the dog has always been driven by a thrown object, could well be something to that. You might take the dog to the ground, on a check cord, and have a partner toss a bird. Before tossing, have him fire a blank gun to get the dogs attention. After the dog is doing well, you fire the blank gun and have the partner throw the bird. Start with shorter retrieves and work your way out.

[gonehuntin']

The final steps in force are the walking fetch and force to a pile. All dogs should be finished using these two final methods. If these methods were not used, the dog was never properly finished on force.

[donpetstop]

I am a new to this what to you mean by walking fetch? I can take him to a bird I have shot and force him to pick it up and walk back to where I was standing when I shot the bird. He then delivers to hand. Is this what you mean?
Don

[Joe Amatulli]

Don you just haven't done enough of the bench work. The idea is that the dog must be made to understand that it is mandatory that he put that object in his mouth, in this case he most likely thinks it's optional, go back to the bench with a dead bird and make him pick it up. Keep doing it for at least a week or untill he just about wants to take your hand off to get to that bird. Start with a chuker or quail do not use a pheasant a lot of dogs do not like so many feathers in thier months.

[Joe Amatulli]

I made my last posting before your's. Forget what I rote you are ferther along than I though. All you need do is keep repeating what you are doing, but the thing adout the pheasant still holds. He'll get the idea soon enough.

[wems2371]

From what I know, walking fetch would be having your dog fetch during heeling. I'm not sure how the pros do it, but after I did my table work and had the dog fetching..........we went to the floor with it. I have a huge living room (and it was wintertime in Iowa), so I would place the buck on the floor. I would then bring my pup in on a leash, so that I could control her. I commanded her HEEL and we heeled towards the buck, commanding FETCH as she got within reach. I did maybe 20' more of heeling and then would tell her GIVE, take the buck and place it back on the floor and make another lap. I did maybe 5 fetches and would put her up on a good note. I thought it was a great transitional exercise from the tablework to sending her on her own to fetch...........not to mention that my orally fixated dog thought it was great fun. Denise

[gonehuntin']

I am a new to this what to you mean by walking fetch? I can take him to a bird I have shot and force him to pick it up and walk back to where I was standing when I shot the bird. He then delivers to hand. Is this what you mean?
Don

After the dog is picking up from the ground you put maybe 6 bumpers out all in a row about 10' or more apart. Walk him at heel to each one (they're in a formation like the rungs of a ladder) and command fetch as you get to each one. If he doesn't, pinch his ear or stick fetch him and make him.

When you are done with this, put a pile of 6-10 bumpers out. Start about six feet back and command fetch. Back up with each bumper retrieved. It is easier to finish the dog at this stage if he is either stick fetched or collar broken.

Now you have him going with no stimulus like a thrown bird. He is retrieving on the command fetch alone.

[luke0927]

Like Gone said the walking fetch and pile work is important...Start with bumbers and have them placed on the ground heel the dog at your side and send him in to fetch a bumber...then the next....you'll then start heeling passed them and send him in only on command.....the dog may get a little confused at first...use the ear pinch and show him what you want him to do (or if he was collar conditioned during FF it saves your back!)....then repeat to birds...I think this will take care of the dog getting confused about birds that you did not throw.

[donpetstop]

I have been doing the pile work and ladder work with much success. I can now walk him at heel around the bumpers and command fetch. He picks them up an holds until I command give.
I went to the gun club on Sunday and worked on 4 birds and all birds were shot and retrieved to hand. Thanks.