2 year old gsp first year training/no hunting

[rudy cordero]

I acquired a 2 yr old gsp, high powered, very heavy bred field trial stock. This dog hunts mice with all her heart and soul (she is good at it). I have trained her to heel, come and whoa. She is E collared trained. I should progress to pigeons etc. However I am running out of bird season and need to make an appearance at my two hunting sites or I may loose them. So here is the question. My hunting grounds have lots of songbirds, mice and a million rabbits, along with plenty of quail. I am considering talking her out and find out what quail are, build her drive etc as well as see what she has, before breaking her on chasing unwanted game. My fear is if I I break her on mice etc first, she may require a lot of build up on birds later, which I have limited access to presently. However, she is going to spend most of her time chasing unwanted game before we run into quail. Is their benefit in taking her in the field or do I wait till next year ????

[gonehuntin']

Once she finds out what a bird is, her interest in mice will wane. I'd take her to your hunting areas and have a ball with her. Try to get her into birds and see what kind of range she has, then start training her at the end of the season. It may be frustrating for you, but it'll be good for the dog.

[bobman]

ditto take her out she will do fine, don't bring any other guns just you until she understands the deal.

All my shorthairs point the occasional mouse just to keep me awake

[Don]

X3. Let her point all the mice and "bleep" birds she wants. Don't be suprised if one of those "bleep" birds or mice thun into a game bird. Don't make any attempt to break her off "bleep" birds or mice, what your really doing then is breaking her off pointing!

PS: Even if she handles them well, don't shoot a "bleep" bird or a mouse for her!

[wems2371]

X3. Let her point all the mice and "bleep" birds she wants. Don't be suprised if one of those "bleep" birds or mice thun into a game bird. Don't make any attempt to break her off "bleep" birds or mice, what your really doing then is breaking her off pointing!

PS: Even if she handles them well, don't shoot a "bleep" bird or a mouse for her!

I'm glad to see someone express the "bleep" bird/mouse trash pointing thing. We have not been finding birds on our hunting weekends, whether it be 8 guys and 3 dogs afield....or just my husband, myself, and the dog. When we're training with pen birds, she doesn't seem to have near the issue and has really grown out of it for the most part. But in the field, she still does some trash pointing, usually relocating herself after a moment. She'll be 18 months on New Years. This last Saturday, husband was getting very irritated with it and proceeded to yell no and call her back a couple times. I didn't think that was probably a good idea (and wanted to say so ), but wasn't sure what was the answer. I've also thought that odds are that one of these days, what looks like a trash point may produce a bird. Anyway, I'll pass the knowledge along. Thanks. Denise

[rudy cordero]

Thanks for your advice, I think I'll take her out and see what she has. I am struggling on let her chase rabbits I might have to correct her on that. Any opinions ??
Again thank you.

[Ditch__Parrot]

Thanks for your advice, I think I'll take her out and see what she has. I am struggling on let her chase rabbits I might have to correct her on that. Any opinions ??
Again thank you.

Look for some old topics on trash breaking. Its a little harsh but if done right you only have to do it once. Basically just hit her with the e-collar on a high setting while she is chasing a rabbit. Don't say anything just hit the continuous button untill she stops in her tracks. I actually hit continuous on normal setting and turned it up untill she stopped. Worked well for me she hasn't even looked sideways at a rabbit in almost four years. The trick is not saying anything just let her think the rabbit shocked her.

I'm just not sure that this is appropriate at this point in your training. It might be better to wait until after she is working birds well. And whatever you do make sure it is a rabbit she is chasing. Same works for deer.

[bradtown]

I'd get her out and hunt. Her instincts should kick in.

It'll be fun for both of ya.

[gonehuntin']

In all likelihood, you will have to break her off rabbits. They seem to never tire of those. Does she point them or just chase them?

[Benny]

Rabbits are a pain in the butt. But like everyone said and what I've been told many times...if there's no birds, your dogs gonna hunt something. So I suppose its a good thing. However, breaking of the bunnies is probably more important than mice, since a bunny could lead your dog across a road with moving vehicles or into some nasty cover (i.e. blackberry bushes which you'll be removing from your dog for the next week).

[postoakshorthairs]

I agree with the rest. If she's well bred she'll forget about everything else as soon as she winds a game bird. It will be like a light coming on in her head. Have fun with her and see what she'll do.

[larue]

I guess i am in the minority here,I do not get too upset when a dog points "bleep" birds or chipmunks or any of the many
other things a dog will point,I just ignore the dog if I know it is sight pointing a "bleep" bird,and move on.
I once corrected my max on a gopher in training one day,as he started to move on point,becouse I corrected him,
he thought he should then not move on gophers,,I made him think he should be steady on gophers due to the correction,I actually made the situation much worse,so I now just ignore a dog and move on.

[rudy cordero]

Well took her out last week with no exposure to birds. She was simply amazing. I wish I could shake the hand off the many great breeders that put this together. She got into quail early and was as intense a dog as I have ever seen, 12 o'clock on both ends and stretching as far as she could without a single step forward. I let her hold on her first three points until the birds flew on their own and she stayed steady through flush. She is as elegant and smooth a moving dog as I have ever seen. She is showing a full choke nose and she flies effortlessly, I am holding her in and trying to channel that field trail run into a closer working, fast and snappy machine. It was a wonderful day, God is Good. I did not shoot over her as I have not force broke her yet and agree with the "do not set up a dog for failure school of thought". This one is a keeper, I have found a rancher that will let me build a pigeon coop and train as well as start a breeding kennel. I am know in the process of finding a grown male as a stud for my new kennel. I am a little curious about the black GSP thing that is going on. Any comments on this will be welcomed. Thanks!!!! for all of you for your comments. I have been doing this for about 30 years and have always wondered what others thought about things, however simple they may seem, this site is a wonderful tool to learn and share on.

Rudy

[Benny]

Mr. Cordero,
sounds like you've got a great one on your hands! Natural hunting abilities are the sweetest thing.
Now back to the training. I wouldn't be to quick to get my dog prego if she's such an excellent hunter but hasn't been fully trained yet. But that's just me. I would want to keep working one on one and build up the good times by putting a LOT of dinner on the table.

Have fun!

[rudy cordero]

Benny,

I am in total agreement with you on breeding her so quick. That is not my plan. I am looking out 12 months from now, and want enough time to purchase and spend time with some stud dog candidates before pulling the trigger. This dog, was a once, in a long time find, I hope that informed and time consuming culling will yield me the same results on a stud dog, but unfortunately, my past experiences have been quit different. For me, a good hunting dog can be had or made by proper training, with some predictability, but I am looking for a whole lot more, style, speed, drive, class, full choke nose and biddable, with a family friendly personalty. I have owned such dogs on a couple of occasions, these dogs have been far and few between. I am not complaining, all the dogs I have owned have had great traits on individual bases and I am grateful to have spend time with them. Yet they were all lacking in many ways as a result of genetic deficiencies, style, endurance/drive, body structure, scenting ability, etc. I finally find myself with circumstances that allow me the time and means to not depend on buying/breeding and culling till I acquire the desired results, I have found that to be very trying and unrewarding way to attain quality dogs, as getting rid of dogs (by selling what I felt was not what I was looking for), in the process of acquiring what I was looking for, just did not sit well with me. I am putting the energy into acquiring a solid foundation and start from their. I have found this to be a much more rewarding experience. I am starting with a an empty nest, this should allow me to not have to try and piece together a final product from what I already have, through wishful/corrective breeding strategies. I am starting with high percentage, proven, line bred stock, with grown dogs that already possess everything that I am looking for, I have found the outcome/percentages are more rewarding and in the best interest of the wonderful GSP breed. Thanks for your advice. Any further advice or comments are truly welcomed.

Rudy

[Sharon]

Excellent post on breeding wisdom. Thanks.