Best book on training for a newbie

[runner]

Hi all. New to forum, been perusing the topics, all very good and several things keep re-surfacing that seem like great tips (i.e. never give a command you can't enforce, patience, end on a high note, reinforcement only with an e-collar, don't do the wing on a string thing, etc.)

Anyway, I had two dogs in the past (Vizslas) that as a teenager I self trained (if you can call it actually trained). It was basically heel, whoa, come. The rest was just go hunt and let them figure it out. They were decent bird dogs despite my ineptness.

I am now, after a 20 year hiatus, really wanting to get a dog again but want to do a better job of training it from the very beginning.

I was wondering if you could all list your top 3 sources (books, video, website) that you would suggest for someone wanting to learn about training a bird dog.

It will be used predominantly for chukar, pheasant, then a smattering of quail, grouse, and waterfowl. I'm still trying to decide on breed but am leaning towards a Pudelpointer but it may end up being a Vizsla, GSP, or Brittney. Any insight in to which of these would be the best for a novice training wise would also be appreciated.

Are pidgeons a must? I don't have a place to keep a roost/pen. Can I train in local fields with wild birds only? This may be a deal breaker but maybe could be remedied by sending the dog to a trainer if necessary.

Also, I never had a house dog (the Vizslas were out back in a run), but this dog will likely spend a fair amount of time in the house. So I'll need to learn how to house break a puppy. If that isn't in the bird dog training books someone suggests, a general book suggestion in this regard would be great.

Thanks for any help.

[Huntemup Chuck]

1) Book: "How to help gun dogs train themselves"
2) DVD's: All of hunt smith stuff, Puppy I, Puppy II, and Slient Command System.
3) Join your local NAVHDA chapter

[Benny]

#1 resource: "How to help gun dogs teach themselves" by Joan Bailey

I got my dog as a 1 year old and we've had her for only 2 1/2 weeks and we've come along way since then (using the book and very much the resources on this forum). The book is better served in the hands of someone like yourself who doesn't have the dog yet, and may want to get a puppy. The first 1/4 of the book seems dedicated to preparing and researching, so it would be extremely helpful I think.

As for video's I don't have the experience with them, but I've heard very good things about the Perfection set of DVD's. Perfection Kennel I think?

[Wilber]

I have a 5 month old setter and read several dog books waiting for the litter to arrive. The best two I found are "How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves," by Joan Bailey, and "Gun Dog," by Richard Wolters. I read them both probably twice and then had to refer back to them repeatedly after the dog arrived (hopefully you'll retain the info better than I did). The info on producing a natural retriever was particularly helpful.

Good luck - you'll need it! But these books will help.

[Ditch__Parrot]

My opinions for what they are worth:

Perfect Start / Perfect Finish Video Series

I can't remember the name but I ordered a little green training book years ago from NAVHDA that I've heard referred to as the green bible that was a good read and thought of as a good training tool.

Find a good resource for basic obediance knowledge rather it be a mentor or books & videos

Gundog Forum


I asked Santa for :
Wing & Shot by Robert Wehle
Smart Fetch by Evan Graham

Tailor whatever methods you use to the individual dog

Of course I recomend a GSP

As far as breed, research all the breeds and figure out which one will fit you best. Shorthairs have a reputation of holding up well to novice training mistakes. I think they make good house dogs. Rather hyper untill around 18 months then start calming down. My 4 1/2 year old (Sadie Marie) is an absolute couch potatoe in the house. It's a whole different story outside though. You'll probably find this true with alot of breeds.

Pigeons would be really nice, I'm just now getting around to building a coop. Should have done it along time ago. If you can't have a pigeon coop start looking for a resource to get birds. You can usually buy birds from a game farm. Its hard to find shooter pigeons for sale. Trapping them yourself might be an option if you live in town or near an overpass.

A pro trainer is a good option.

People trained on wild birds for years. It's not as easy or convenient. Wild birds are a scarce recource these days.It can be done though

Crate train.

[Don]

I would strongly recommend "The Best Way to Train Your Bird Dog, The Delmar Smith Method" x Bill Tarrent. I think there are only a handfull of bad books on training. The secret is to follow the method to completetion once you start one. I don't recommend wolters book!

[rich]

I WOULD RECOMMEND DELMAR SMITHS BOOK ( THE BEST WAY TO TRAIN YOUR DOG) AND THE VIDEO ( PERFECT START AND FINISH) THIS ONE IS VERY SPENDY BUT WORTH IT. YOU WILL NEED BOTH TO GET A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT

[Greg Jennings]

Would add the two Puppy Development DVDs by the Smiths. Following them will save headaches later.

[runner]

Thanks for all the replies. I ordered the Joan Bailey book and the Delmar Smith method by Bill Tarrent from Amazon last night-- free 2 day shipping around the holidays. Nice.

I'm not seeing a consensus on the DVDs. It seems the two major options suggested here are:
1- Perfect Start/Finish series ($130)
vs.
2- Rick and Ronnie Smith (set would be Puppy I, Puppy II, and Silent Command, $40/each-- $120).

I don't think I'm going to go order both-- both for cost and information overload reasons. I'd prefer to choose one method or the other and stick with it. Any chance there is someone who has used or seen both and could comment/compare? Reading the reviews on the two at gundogsupply.com, I'm leaning towards the Perfect Start/Finish series. I'll get the books and read them here in a couple days, finalize the dog breed decision (it's probably going to be a Pudelpointer), and go from there I guess.

[Rob]

It sounds like we are in nearly identical situations, although I had weims when I was growing up and now have a vizsla.

I went with the Perfect Start/Finish series and really enjoy them. I also have a buddy with the puppy series that I have seen portions of (admittedly not the entire series). I personally don't think you can go wrong with either, for what it is worth.

I have also read most of the books out there. Maybe it is just the way I learn, but I find myself leaning on the videos much more than the books. But I have kept the books around for reference. I think maybe I over-prepared (in my nature). By reading several books I tended to start muddling them all together.

Rob

[runner]

It sounds like we are in nearly identical situations, although I had weims when I was growing up and now have a vizsla.

I went with the Perfect Start/Finish series and really enjoy them. I also have a buddy with the puppy series that I have seen portions of (admittedly not the entire series). I personally don't think you can go wrong with either, for what it is worth.

I have also read most of the books out there. Maybe it is just the way I learn, but I find myself leaning on the videos much more than the books. But I have kept the books around for reference. I think maybe I over-prepared (in my nature). By reading several books I tended to start muddling them all together.

Rob

Ahhh, a kindred spirit. Drives my wife crazy-- she's a worker/ get-er-done gal, and I have to look at all the info./options and plan a careful attack before I finally go all in. Good luck with your Vizsla. I sure loved mine. Very anxious to please type of dogs.

[MTO4Life]

I have the puppy 1, puppy 2 and silent command videos. They were extremely informative. Not just to me, but other friends of mine who have dogs (retrievers at that... gasp). They found them great as well. FWIW!!

[BellaDad]

You can always try like I did and post i the Buy/Sell/Trade forum that you want to purchase a used set of one of them. I was fortunate enough to find someone who had purchased the perfect start/finish set that no longer needed it and was unable to unload it for a fair price.

Worth a shot, it may save you a few bucks like it did me.

[birdhunter2424]

54

Thanks for all the replies. I ordered the Joan Bailey book and the Delmar Smith method by Bill Tarrent from Amazon last night-- free 2 day shipping around the holidays. Nice.

I'm not seeing a consensus on the DVDs. It seems the two major options suggested here are:
1- Perfect Start/Finish series ($130)
vs.
2- Rick and Ronnie Smith (set would be Puppy I, Puppy II, and Silent Command, $40/each-- $120).

I don't think I'm going to go order both-- both for cost and information overload reasons. I'd prefer to choose one method or the other and stick with it. Any chance there is someone who has used or seen both and could comment/compare? Reading the reviews on the two at gundogsupply.com, I'm leaning towards the Perfect Start/Finish series. I'll get the books and read them here in a couple days, finalize the dog breed decision (it's probably going to be a Pudelpointer), and go from there I guess.

It took me over 3 years to decide which breed I was going to get. I was sett on getting a Pudelpointer for a long time, until I talked with some experienced trainers and breeders. I changed my mind and decided to get a shorthair. I was told by more then one person that the pudelpointers aren't as hardy as the shorthairs. just my opinion. This was a very difficult decision to make but I am glad I took my time with it. I am sure you will pick the right pup as long as you take your time and truely consider each breed.

[Rob]

I considered most of the versatile breeds before deciding, and I think there is something to be said for matching the right breed to the right situation - at the right time. I honestly think I could have been satisfied with a well-bred puppy from nearly any of the breeds.

I liken it to choosing a nice car. There are many you could find a spot in the garage for, but just one that really feels just right at any given time. 4 doors, 2 doors, high speed, luxury, whatever.

Good luck in your search!

Rob

[jbr03]

I also agree with many of the other posters that the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish DVDs are the way to go. i knew very little about training when i got my first pup and that set helped me greatly. i cannot say enough good things about those DVDs. kinda pricey but worth the money. they even gave me the perfect finish for free. maybe by accident?