Retrieveing MAJOR CONCERN

[Russmill84]

Ok well i've got my Weim "Beau" in training....he is home with me for now. Im almost done whoa breaking him, and a few other basics...heres the bad part though. He has no interest in birds. He wanted one REAL bad when i got them last week (Frozen pheasant, quails, and pigeons) and now he just acts scared of them, i throw them and he is literaaly scared of them...i don't know what happened. He was real interested in them, and now he just runs past it, or away from it like there is nothing out there. What can I do to fix this?

[Benny]

how old is your weim?

[gonehuntin']

All though there are no details, sounds to me like you put pressure on him for "Whoa" around birds. Now he has basically equated "Whoa" with "NO" on birds. Whoa is an obedience command. It is taught without birds and only used sparingly with them.

[Russmill84]

He is 1 1/2 yo. I never Whoa trained him around birds. I still don't. I just finished a few days of whoa training him. Went to work on retrieving, and he just acts like he is terrified of the birds, or shies away. I bought him as a pet only because they said he couldnt listen or train. Me being nice made the mistake of buying a dog i knew would be given away perhaps to a crappy place. So i bought him for a small fee. I know you guys on here are like me...you know when a dog can learn and when one can not. I KNEW he could, I just had to let him get some of his puppy out of him. well now time has prgressed from me buying him as a 7 month old pup who supposedly would not listen. Point being....he is smart, and is learning everything quick. I also know he is going to be a decent bird dog, as he has been around loads of wild, and caged birds. HE is intelligent, and has no problems learning, im just making sure not to overload him. So should i resort to a Force break to retrieve? or are there other ways to show him that birds are good?

[gar-dog]

I might get a live quail or pigeon and clip its wings and let him after it in the yard, and say nothing, maybe even go inside. Take yourself out of the equation and observe what happens. That way maybe you can determine if it is about you/obedience or the birds. I would make sure the "bird thing" is good again before thinking about retrieve right now.

[Russmill84]

ok well i will see what happens....im hoping it is just a weird thing/phase he is in. I guess only time will tell.

[kninebirddog]

same here i would try some clipped wing pigeons and just let him chase and play wiit it

forget the frozen birds which he is avoiding for now

see if the live bird gets him excited...if he doesn't want anything to do with a live bird...how much ime and effort do you really want to put into a dog that really doesn't want to do it...ask your self that cause no prey drive makes for a very poor bird dog

there are some little thing you can try but there has to be some curiousness in the dog to even acknowledge a bird for the potential to make the birds fun and if you can get that out in the dog ...it will not take much at all for set backs

[Joe Amatulli]

Wow this really sounds bad! Knine and Gar-dog have it right, if a live bird does not exite him the best that you can hope for is to get him to stand on command, that does you no good in the feild. You may need to do the live bird thing a number of times and at the end he may not be willing to point. It seems to me that when you have a bad problem with a dog, the fix often creates another problem, sometimes worst than the first problem.

Good luck let us know how you make out.

[snips]

I would go with live quail, as pigeons can scare a timid dog occasionally. Let him go after a crippled bird or one that is dizzied and won't fly far. He needs some prey drive built up.

[vzkennels]

If the dog is scared of birds the retrieving is moot.Get the dog bird crazy before worring about any of the rest.

[Russmill84]

ok well as weird as it sounds, last night he did good, he did ten dead bird retrieves, and he did ten clipped wing bird find and retreives...he only missed one wounded find and retrieve. I have no idea what is going on, i know he did well last night but he is still does not have a very good prey drive. He did amazing last night, and the 2 nights before he wasnt even interested. I guess he may have just been in shut down mode the last few nights.??!!?? Who knows. Well I will see how everything goes, if i have anymore problems i will let you know

[Joe Amatulli]

20 times, no wounder he has no drive, he's bored! :roll: When you take a dog out for training you use 1to 2 birds and put him away, let him think about it. When you over do anything wouldn't you get tired of it? A dog is no different, you need to keep it interesting up, don't BORE him.

[Greg Jennings]

What Joe said.

20 times is about 10 times too much.

[Russmill84]

so should do only a maximum of 10 per session ?

[gonehuntin']

Always leave them wanting more. Until this is resolved, I'd give the dog 3-6 retrieves and put him away while it's still prancincg around wanting more. Build that drive until in seethes.

[kninebirddog]

Ditto Ditto Ditto

Always quit a dog when teaching stuff before they quit you

How many How Long if a dog is having fun at 3 reps and then quits you at 4 then quit a 3

Don't put a time or amount as that is the first step to failure

it is not about the Quantity it is about the Quality

If you have to take a step Back to end on a good note then by all means take that step back

[dawgmama]

Less is more, especially with a smart dog. My husband had a Brittney that despised boat bumpers and frozen bird retrieving practice, but was an amazing retriever. She'd look at him like "been there,done that"!

He's proven he's into it, now get him out hunting!

[Russmill84]

So I took him out with a friends dog, and got him good and jealous, and did 5 find and retrieves. He did PERFECT, and was still excited when we finished. I went ahead and quit with him wanting more. It look slike it is going to be ok, i was just WAY over doing it. Thank you all!