My 3rd Grade Quail Pen

[Benny]

Hey I'm no carpenter, but I thought I would try. Nothing serious, just something to hold them for a few days from the buyer to the field. I might try to add a cylinder on the side so it can be used as a recall box, but all in good time.








Now I have quail. I just don't know what to do with the little buggers

[Sharon]

Looks good. I'm a teacher and I'd say an A+ pen.
I use a small dog pen with tightly wound wire. Be careful keeping them outside on the ground. I lost all mine to a cat - sticking her paws through the pen managed to rip them some. It's amazing how far they can get a paw in.
At trials I see them feed greens to the quail ( lettuce etc.) I don't know why. I only feed water and fine chick starter.

PS Looks like you're building that in the living room. Hmmm . I know what I'd say.

[Benny]

Looks good. I'm a teacher and I'd say an A+ pen.

Thanks! Nails were too big and split the hemlock 1x1.5's at almost every end

We worked a couple birds this morning. Very new for the both of us. I let the first one out into black berry and it just walked right out into the open grass and Emma went NUTS! I didn't know what to do?!?! So I just had my girlfriend "whoa" her on the cord (no encouragement of pointing) while the dumb bird walked around for minutes. Finally I just scuttled the thing on the ground and let her off for the retrieve. Second bird I did better, laid it in chest high grasses. Decided to let her off the cord for that one and she failed to really get any point going but held staunch for a second or two while the bird took off. Made the executive decision to take that one down too.
I think I definitely did some stuff wrong here. Not as smooth as I would have liked. Any opinions?

[Bay Mud]

Benny,
Not sure what your overall plan is, but is going to be benificial for you to have one. In all your training try to go through the process in your head before proceeding. This includes possible problems that could arise. I would leave the CC on the dog for now. If you want to get her pointing and steady launchers are your best bet. If you don't want to buy them find someone to train with that has them. Or since you are in the building mode you could make one of these:http://birddoginfo.homestead.com/launcher.html.

Pen raised birds are tricky. As you already know they don't always fly and sometimes when they do they do strange things. The CC is going to help keep the dog from catching birds. That is what we don't want. We want that dog thinking that it can't catch birds and that any move it makes caused the bird to flush. That is why launchers and wild birds are great for steadying a dog.

How did you set up the situation? Wind? How did you bring the dog into the planted bird?

Generally in your situation you want to bring the dog in crosswind about 5-15 yards from the planted bird. If the dog was going nuts for the quail it saw eventually it will start going nuts for the smell. Remember we are trying to get the dog to point on scent. This prevents them crowding points later on.

BayMud

[Benny]

How did you set up the situation? Wind? How did you bring the dog into the planted bird?

Yes, a plan would have been nice. Theoretically I thought I had one It was cold and I saw my breath heading south, so I had my GF hold Emma on the cord (this is the 2nd bird, not the one that went for the casual stroll in the grass) pretty far away and behind cover while I tossed the bird NORTH of her (upwind...so not cross wind ) and then had her let Emma off the cord. Emma found the bird all on her own because when she approached me you could tell she didn't have a clue there was a bird out there. I wish I had run the cord, she is obviously in way too early of a stage to be letting off. I'm rushing again...this is what the end of the season will do a newbie that's just as excited as his dog.
Also, I had a question about "whoa". There was a lot of discussion about never using "whoa" on birds. WTH? What do you say to your dog when you approach the bird on the cord...or right after they're ready to be off the cord and need verbal cues?

Thanks Sharon & Mud

[Bay Mud]

[quote="Benny
Also, I had a question about "whoa". There was a lot of discussion about never using "whoa" on birds. WTH? What do you say to your dog when you approach the bird on the cord...or right after they're ready to be off the cord and need verbal cues?[/quote]

You don't say anything. We want our dogs to stop and point on scent. The idea is that the birds are teaching a dog to point not our verbal cue. I will use whoa on a dog that has established point and begins to creep. I should clarify that whoa and creeping applies to hunting situations, because during training I would just pop the bird in the launcher at first movement.

BayMud

[postoakshorthairs]

Be careful with the pen raised birds and letting the dog chase them when flushed..and even on point for that matter...because they don't always flush and/or fly well and letting them catch birds can be bad news. I always work dogs on a check chord or buddy pole until I'm certain they are firm on birds to prevent them catching a pigeon or pen raised bird. The launchers work great to let the dog know he can't "creep" in and catch the birds. I like to acclimate the dog to the sound of them before using them because some are louder than others. You also mention you had your girlfriend "whoa" the dog..did you go thru the steps of whoa breaking it so it knows what it means to "whoa"?? I agree with the previous post that a good plan with steps works best. I remember wanting so badly to get my first dog broke that I skipped right to the big stuff but a good foundation makes it much easier later.

[Bay Mud]

Benny,
Here is what I would do if I were you, with what you have. This is assuming that your girlfriend or someone else will help you.

You need a dog, birds,check cord, a stiff 6 foot pole, heavy string, 2 heavier rubber bands, a metal ring.

Fashion a bird harness using the two rubber bands and the metal ring. It will fit on the bird kinda like a backpack. Attach the one side of the string to the ring the other to the tip of the pole.

In the field plant the bird attached to the pole. Bring the dog in crosswind on a CC. When she gets into the scent cone look for the first sign that she caught wind of the bird. This is where you need to learn how to read your dog. When she starts to move towards the bird stop her immediately with the CC. Keep you mouth shut. Get down on one knee next to her. One hand on her collar, one arm around her waste. The goal is to keep her in that spot. Have your partner walk in, pick up the pole, let the bird flutter around a little, and then give the rig a toss back into cover. CC the dog away from the point of contact and work on some come, heel, turn stuff. Have your partner plant the bird again and repeat the steps. This takes repetition and patience. It may take many sessions. The goal is to get the dog to stand bird scent without breaking. As you progress you can move to the standing next to the dog. If she starts to move give her a quick tug with the CC to stop her. If she won’t stay put go back to the knee she doesn’t have the concept yet.

You don’t need to be shooting any training birds over the dog at this point, fight the temptation.

If you plan on hunting more this season hold off on the bird training until you are done. Let the wild birds give her some lessons and then go through steadying exercises this spring.

Find a place to catch feral pigeons. They are free and durable training birds.

Remember be patient, persistent, and anticipate problems before they happen.

This is what I would do. I prefer launchers, but they are a luxury. Seemed like you needed a plan. Hope I was helpful.
Best of luck,
BayMud

[Benny]

Bay Mud,
very helpful. I'm to the point where I totally agree, I think we're going to take a break from planted birds and shooting. I'm trying to imagine the backpack on the bird, though and also...

let the bird flutter around a little, and then give the rig a toss back into cover. CC the dog away from the point of contact and work on some come, heel, turn stuff.

Do you mean toss the bird or the pole back into cover. Would this type of training be similar to bird on a string (or does that cause damage to the birds legs?), and also, not to contradict, but I'm curious if you agree with perhaps just picking the dog up after pointing. I've been told quite a few times never to pull the dog off point, just pick it up and walk somewhere else.

Thank you, I think this is a great game plan. Especially with the end of season right around the corner.

[Bay Mud]

Bay Mud,
very helpful. I'm to the point where I totally agree, I think we're going to take a break from planted birds and shooting. I'm trying to imagine the backpack on the bird, though and also...

let the bird flutter around a little, and then give the rig a toss back into cover. CC the dog away from the point of contact and work on some come, heel, turn stuff.

Do you mean toss the bird or the pole back into cover. Would this type of training be similar to bird on a string (or does that cause damage to the birds legs?), and also, not to contradict, but I'm curious if you agree with perhaps just picking the dog up after pointing. I've been told quite a few times never to pull the dog off point, just pick it up and walk somewhere else.

Thank you, I think this is a great game plan. Especially with the end of season right around the corner.

The bird is attached to the string on the pole by the harness that you create using the rubber bands and metal ring. The bands are like backpack straps(If I get a chance all post a pic). The ring will sit on back of the bird. Lift up the pole and the bird comes with it. Kind of like the bait on the end of your fishing rod. Toss the whole thing, pole,string, bird back into cover.

I think the bird on the string thing you are referring to is carded pigeons or quail. Good way to get training birds back, or stuck in trees . That could work for you, but my opinion is it is still a few steps away. With the poll you have total control of the bird. With carded birds you run the chance of the dog grabbing birds that fly back toward it.

As for picking up the dog on point go for it if you want. It one of those different strokes for different folks things.

BayMud