First Puppy Stake/Field Trial - Questions

[LoveMyGSPs]

So Ive spent hours searching online and on this forum and while Ive found quite a bit of info, I still have some general questions. Sorry if this is redundant!

My husband (sn on here is subatomicstang) and I have a 5 month old GSP male. The foster mom of a female GSP we are getting has mentioned that there is a field trial coming up at the beginning of Feb not far from us and suggested we take our pup to do the Puppy Stakes. She was giving us the brief overview of what whole thing and since she judges field and hunt tests, she was telling us what she looks for in the puppy tests - that they actively search for birds, are confident, and if they do get to a point that they hold it for 3 seconds, etc. Im sure there is way more but Im still learning!

Anyways, after researching about the ins and outs of these stakes, I am kind of concerned about this whole bracing thing. Only b/c our pup loves to play with other dogs. What if we go out there and all he wants to do is play with his brace mate?

He has been on pigeons once so far (at foster moms place) and when we go to get our female at the end of Jan, we are going to get the chance to put him on some more pigeons as well as bring home a mated pair to start our own flock with. That gives us approx. 2 weeks to have our own birds at home before this Stake. If we keep showing him the birds and get him "bird crazy", do you think he will fair better at the Stake and not be so interested in playing with his brace mate?

We dont care about his placing or passing. We just want to go out there, get him some experience, have fun, and meet others with the same interests.

Any thing else we should be doing? Ive read to not really handle him, dont talk too much or try to give commands, etc. Let the dog do his thing and show off. We are going to hang out and watch the older dogs and just see what goes on as this will be our first time going to anything like this.

Thanks for any help. Sorry if this has been posted before.

[JimB]

First, let me say congrads on getting the pup. It's great fun to run your dog in hunts test and /or trials, do it and have fun! But I'm frankly surprised that the "foster mom" who judges, would only have shown a 5 mo old pup birds one time. I'm very lucky in that my training grounds have tons of wild birds, and by 5mo old my pups may have seen hundreds. I know not everybody has that....
Anyway, the problem you have is that if you run a pup that will play, chase and not hunt,...you are going to ruin the chance of the brace mate. Do run your pup, and do have fun,...but wait till it's ready.
Best of luck with your pup

[slistoe]

That is what puppy stakes are for. There is no time like the present for both dog and handler to learn how to negotiate around a course. If your dog is being terribly detrimental to the performance of the other dog they may have you try to separate yourself from the other handler.

[subatomicstang]

let me straighten this out. The puppy we have didn't come from the fostermom of the 1 year old we are getting. We have had him since 8weeks old and just working on obediance traning. Last month when we went to take a look see at the fostered female she gave me the oppurtunity to put my pup on some pigeons which he hunted the field and went right to them one at a time of course his pointing instinct hasn't kicked in hard core yet but he seemed very promising. We are very novice at this and that was my first chance to get him on birds we will have our own birds very soon. The female she is fostering has great prey drive and has been in the field unformally but at this time she is not akc registered because she was rescued. back to the puppy stakes. realistically how close do you have to be to the bracemate from the start and if he starts to head to the other dog and won't go back to hunting can I go pick him up or put him on leash and take him away and let him continue on? I know for a fact if I was out without another dog he would definitely hunt and find bird.

[ezzy333]

I doubt if there has ever been a puppy that didn't want to play with the bracemate. Especially one raised by itself. Do not worry about it as your judge will tell you how he wants you to handle it. Pkus you can ask the judge whatever you feel you need to. Mormlly after a few minutes of acting dumb they will start hunting and by the end of the stake they will be doing fine. Remember the first thing a child or a pup does is embarass you the first time you take them out it public. I'll bet it happens to you too just like it has to the rest of us.

As a side note, if you are getting a pair of pigeons you will need to keep them in for a month or two at least and if I was going to let them out it wouldn't be till they are on a nest and if they were mine it probably wouldn't be till they had raised 4 or 6 young ones. If you want to release birds earlier you need to get a few young birds that have never been flown.

Ezzy

[RayGubernat]

Lovemygsps -

I'm getting some mixed messages here. Are you contemplating running your pup in an AKC puppy stake or an AKC JH? They are different stakes.

I will assume that it is an Amateur puppy stake which means you will be walking.

Most of the time a puppy stake is run on a course without birds. I personally would never deliberately run a puppy on a course that was salted with birds. Too much chance of the youngster doing something it should not. and you, the handler are not in a postion to control the situation or correct the dog.

If it is a puppy stake that is run on a birdless course, then it is, or should be all about having fun with the dog. Just be aware that some folks are very competitive and you may be braced with someone who does not have a well developed sense of humor.

I would find out the particulars and if you are the least bit uncomfortable, go, and bring your pup(the experience of going to a trial will be good for him)...watch what is going on, but do not enter this one. There will be others.

RayG

[LoveMyGSPs]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry if it was confusing. The foster mom, as my hubby stated, has the 1 y/o female and we were able to introduce our 5 mo old pup to birds when we went to meet the female.

We know about having to wait for the pigeons to nest a few times so they will return to the pen.

This is the website with the event listed on it.

http://weimtime.net/calendar.htm

As you can see, it really doesnt give a prizelist (at least thats what we call it in horse shows) that lists the different classes or anything. So Im not sure exactly what kind of classes there are yet but since the foster mom is judging it, Im assuming there is some type of puppy class available as that is what she was saying would be good for us to have him run around in. I will ask her for details.

I think, IIRC, that the puppy will be out without birds and then at the end of the day, if we want to let the pup run around after the other classes, we can, so that way he can smell where birds were, etc.

That is good to know that it isnt uncommon for the pups to want to play with each other. I think once we get the female, and allow him to get used to have another dog around, hopefully he wont be so into the other dogs.

We have a bunch of killdeer (I think thats what they are called, they look like sand pipers), and we have a bunch of robins and dove on our property (3 acres) that he points at and chases, its just nothing like in a bush or anything. Does that count? lol

[shags]

Couldn't find a FT this month for that Weim club (Florida, right?), but here are some others -
http://www.akc.org/events/search/index. ... on=results

You can go to www.akc.org and do an events and awards search for other months and states.

Personally I don't worry about birds on puppy courses if my puppy isn't ready to be steadied; I've never had a training problem arise from a little bump 'n chase at a young age. If your pup is bothering its bracemate too much, you can ask the judges if you should pick it up. In AKC puppy stakes, dogs do not have to point at all although if they do, they might leave a better impression on the judge.

Just go and have fun

[RayGubernat]

LoveMyGsps -

The event I saw was a hunt test. I would definitely NOT run a totally unbroke puppy in even a JH stake. First it is unfair to the bracemate and second you are allowing your dog into a situation where it can play with birds, catch birds and you can't do anything about it. That has the potential to set your training back...big time.

I am emphatically NOT a proponent of letting a young dog mess with birds...unless they are truly wild birds. I think it creates waaaay more problems than it is worth.

I do not buy the bit about getting a dog "bird crazy". A properly bred bird dog should have all the drive and bird desire that a hunter(or trialer) should need. If not...you need to buy a better bred dog.

I believe that once you have awakened that desire in a puppy, you are much better served concentrating on obedience type training for the first several months. It is much better, in my opinion, to have a dog that will come when you call it, stop dead in its tracks when you holler whoa and turn with you when you turn and holler HUT...BEFORE you put that dog on birds.

I liken it to installing the brakes and the steering in a racecar before you take it out on the track. No one would dream of taking a racecar out on the track without brakes and without steering because a crash is inevitrable. It befuddles me why folks think they will fare any better with a dog.

The kind of dogs I work with have, if anything... TOO MUCH desire. Channeling and controlling and using that desire to mold the dog's behavior is, for me, much preferable to letting the dog run wild and then having to clamp down on and discipline the dog in the field.

I would rather do the disciplining(install the brakes and steering) in the yard and then, when the dog is ready, let the birds teach the dog the really important stuff, like where to find them and how to handle them. The birds will do that far better than I can.

RayG

PS -

One more thing...in a trial if you put a leash on a dog...you are done, except in a circumstance where the judge instructs you to leash the dog(like crossing a busy roadway). If you want to corral your dog and re-start it, you are allowed to hold the dog by the collar and walk it away, either at heel or taking it by the collar. In a hunt test, I believe you must leave the dog down unless the judge tells you to pick up.

[tenbearsviz]

LoveMyGsps,

That weim club only does hunting tests.

You are however in a true hotbed of AKC field trials. There are numerous GSP Clubs:

North Florida CSP Club, Central Florida GSPC, South GA GSP, Atlanta GSP's, Panhandle GSP's

There are other breed clubs as well:

Tampa Bay Vizsla CLub
Metro Atlanta Vizsla Club
Mid Florida Brittany Club
Tomoka Woods Pointing Breed Club
That weim club (sorry, cant spell it)
Central Georgia Pointing dog Club..

There are many more. Get envoled with a local club and check out thier events.

Back to your pup.. Sooner or later pray drive should out desire play drive. Keep all baby bird dog activities positive. Dont try and learn it all over night. Go watch trials and ask questions. Mostly have fun.