Grabbing My Wrist

[Sandy Meador]

My 18 month old GSP has begun lightly grabbing my wrist every time I open her kennel. It is the first thing she does. It isn't like she is biting me, it is more like she is trying to "hold hands" if that makes any sense. Has anyone run across this? Is it a dominance trait? How do I go about correcting her? I have never seen this type of behavior before. Thanks!

[BellaDad]

I whoa my dog before letting her out of her kennel. If she tries to move before I release her I close the door back in her face.

[kninebirddog]

I am not one for allowing my dogs to think mouthing me is acceptable

personally I would just shove back into the mouth to make it unpleasurable when the dogs does mouth you...not to cause any harm but yes to make it an undesireable action

[Dennmor]

Sandy,
I know that Large Munsterlanders seem to like to do that. I have read over and over where LM's like to mouth the wrist. My Moses used to do it quite often as a younger pup. Now he only does it on occasion, like when he's particularly glad to see me. He doesn't grab and hold on, he just sort of gently puts his mouth around my wrist, though I do feel his teeth, and then releases.
I wouldn't worry about it unless it starts to progress or if you just really don't like it.

dennmor

[R-Middleton]

I would never allow a dog to take hold of me any where any time or place. It is IMO an act of dominance, and I won't put up with that.

Ray

[Benny]

Strange, perhaps your dog isn't necessarily showing dominance by that type of hold judging by Denmor's input. In most cases a swat on the nose would seem to suffice, but that might confuse a dog that thinks it's making a polite gesture

[Sandy Meador]

Denmore - thats excatly how she does it.

I figured it was a (trying) to show dominance, but I've never seen a dog do it. Usually I'll swivel my hand around and pin her tongue to teach her from doing this. Hey, I used to have a black Lab male (upon reaching about 20 months old) that would return from a retrieve and come to my right to sit and release the duck. After sitting, he would ever so cooly place his left paw on my boot! Cured that pretty quickly, but until he passed, he'd try it at least once or twice monthly!!!

[gonehuntin']

Sounds like she wants to play but I'm like K-9; I never allow them to bite the hand that feeds them.

[Sharon]

I would never allow a dog to take hold of me any where any time or place. It is IMO an act of dominance, and I won't put up with that.

Ray

Exactly. He's not trying to hold your hand. Don't put human characteristics on dogs. It's a dog and will act like a dog. My dog will rest her head on my knee ( if allowed). It looks so loving - it's not. What she's saying is , " Get up! Get me a treat."

[ezzy333]

I find that my dogs don't have hands and they have figured out that their mouth is one way to hold on. I think everyone of them will do it when they want t o play and a couple will do it trying to get me to go to the door and let them out. I have never even thought of it as a problem but if I want them to quit i can just slap their nose and tell them to stop. I guess I have never tried to put a meaning to every action of this kind other than they are trying to tell you something or are wanting to play.

Ezzy

[Dennmor]

I find that my dogs don't have hands and they have figured out that their mouth is one way to hold on. I think everyone of them will do it when they want t o play and a couple will do it trying to get me to go to the door and let them out. I have never even thought of it as a problem but if I want them to quit i can just slap their nose and tell them to stop. I guess I have never tried to put a meaning to every action of this kind other than they are trying to tell you something or are wanting to play.

Ezzy

Sounds right to me.
dennmor

[bobman]

I would never allow a dog to take hold of me any where any time or place. It is IMO an act of dominance, and I won't put up with that.

Ray

Exactly. He's not trying to hold your hand. Don't put human characteristics on dogs. It's a dog and will act like a dog. My dog will rest her head on my knee ( if allowed). It looks so loving - it's not. What she's saying is , " Get up! Get me a treat."

Thats the way I see it a sign of dominance and something to stop

[Vom Britt]

I sold a puppy a few years back to a person which allowed his new dog to "hold hands." He is now back with me, because he "held hands" with a women and when she naturally pulled back blood was drawn. All it took for the cure was a light knee to his chest for jumping and a solid no to holding, unless it is a bumper

[Litig8r15]

That is definitely a sign of dominance. I raise Italian Mastiffs. They are a very dominant breed. It is relatively common for mastiff puppies to do this. You should correct by extinguishing the behavior. Some of the ideas above are very good. Make sure you are not rewarding (positively or negatively) or it will continue.

Eric

[WildRose]

No it's not dominance unless the dog is biting down and/or growling while grabbing you. If your dog had thumbs he'd use his paws but he doesn't.

It's simply dog language for "yay you are my friend and I'm happy to see you".

If it bothers you then it's easy enough to teach them not to do it without being brutal about it. Just take your arm away from him and pet him. Every time he grabs you simply say "no", remove your arm from his mouth and continue on.

Unfortunately way to many "trainers" have no understanding of canine communication. Failing to be able to understand what dogs are really doing and why causes a lot of people to miss out on a lot of the joy in working with dogs.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

I agree with CR 100%.

Doug

[ezzy333]

No it's not dominance unless the dog is biting down and/or growling while grabbing you. If your dog had thumbs he'd use his paws but he doesn't.

It's simply dog language for "yay you are my friend and I'm happy to see you".

If it bothers you then it's easy enough to teach them not to do it without being brutal about it. Just take your arm away from him and pet him. Every time he grabs you simply say "no", remove your arm from his mouth and continue on.

Unfortunately way to many "trainers" have no understanding of canine communication. Failing to be able to understand what dogs are really doing and why causes a lot of people to miss out on a lot of the joy in working with dogs.

Right on.

Ezzy

[Dennmor]

No it's not dominance unless the dog is biting down and/or growling while grabbing you. If your dog had thumbs he'd use his paws but he doesn't.

It's simply dog language for "yay you are my friend and I'm happy to see you".

If it bothers you then it's easy enough to teach them not to do it without being brutal about it. Just take your arm away from him and pet him. Every time he grabs you simply say "no", remove your arm from his mouth and continue on.

Unfortunately way to many "trainers" have no understanding of canine communication. Failing to be able to understand what dogs are really doing and why causes a lot of people to miss out on a lot of the joy in working with dogs.

Well said!
My pup does "it" and doesn't have a dominant bone in his body (towards humans). You have to pay attention to what your dog is really saying by the actions they make. One dog’s intention could be completely different from another’s. Be careful about taking some ones advice that talks in generalities, very few times can you speak in terms of "all dogs".
One of the reasons successful trainers are in such demand is; they are able to understand and read animals on an individual basis.
I'm not implying that you shouldn't be concerned when a dog grabs you by the wrist. I'm just saying that it can mean more than one thing and all the meanings aren't bad.
IMHO,
dennmor

[Litig8r15]

No it's not dominance unless the dog is biting down and/or growling while grabbing you. If your dog had thumbs he'd use his paws but he doesn't.

It's simply dog language for "yay you are my friend and I'm happy to see you".

If it bothers you then it's easy enough to teach them not to do it without being brutal about it. Just take your arm away from him and pet him. Every time he grabs you simply say "no", remove your arm from his mouth and continue on.

Unfortunately way to many "trainers" have no understanding of canine communication. Failing to be able to understand what dogs are really doing and why causes a lot of people to miss out on a lot of the joy in working with dogs.

With all due respect, you are confusing dominance and aggression. A dominant dog does not have to be aggressive. Certainly dominant dogs can be aggressive but they do not have to be. The dog is initiating the contact in order to elicit a response from his owner. That is dominance. While it may not lead to a full bite with a GSP, mouthing should not be tolerated. Many dominant breed trainers advocate using NILIF - nothing in life is free. In simple terms, the owner requires the dog to "perform" by coming when called, sitting, anything before a reward is given.

You obviously did not understand what I was saying. I never suggested being brutal. Positive and negative reinforcement and extinguishing an unwanted behavior do require any brutality or physicality at all. It is a method of eliminating unwanted behaviors and eliciting desired behavior. These methods are widely used by many "trainers".

Eric

[aylaschamp]

I know of two dogs raised in different homes that when you go out the door and don't want them too they "grab" your finger tips and do a flea bight action. It's a very soft grabbing with their mouth. One is my GSP and the other is my fathers. The dogs aren't from the same lines and have not spent any amount of time together. It's just an odd behavior. I always viewed it as a "don't leave me" plea.

[WildRose]

No it's not dominance unless the dog is biting down and/or growling while grabbing you. If your dog had thumbs he'd use his paws but he doesn't.

It's simply dog language for "yay you are my friend and I'm happy to see you".

If it bothers you then it's easy enough to teach them not to do it without being brutal about it. Just take your arm away from him and pet him. Every time he grabs you simply say "no", remove your arm from his mouth and continue on.

Unfortunately way to many "trainers" have no understanding of canine communication. Failing to be able to understand what dogs are really doing and why causes a lot of people to miss out on a lot of the joy in working with dogs.

With all due respect, you are confusing dominance and aggression. A dominant dog does not have to be aggressive. Certainly dominant dogs can be aggressive but they do not have to be. The dog is initiating the contact in order to elicit a response from his owner. That is dominance. While it may not lead to a full bite with a GSP, mouthing should not be tolerated. Many dominant breed trainers advocate using NILIF - nothing in life is free. In simple terms, the owner requires the dog to "perform" by coming when called, sitting, anything before a reward is given.

You obviously did not understand what I was saying. I never suggested being brutal. Positive and negative reinforcement and extinguishing an unwanted behavior do require any brutality or physicality at all. It is a method of eliminating unwanted behaviors and eliciting desired behavior. These methods are widely used by many "trainers".

Eric

With all due respect you haven't got a clue here as to canine behavior and communication. I don't care if 9 out of 10 "trainers" agree with you that would simply mean that 90% of "trainers" were ignorant of what's actually going on here.

The dog is initiating the contact in order to elicit a response from his owner. That is dominance.

Initiating contact is not "dominance". A desire for companionship is not dominance. A desire to express affection is not dominance. "Hey you are my friend" and "Please don't leave me" and "Let's play" are not dominance and those are the things being communicated here not "Screw you we're going to do it my way".

[WildRose]

No it's not dominance unless the dog is biting down and/or growling while grabbing you. If your dog had thumbs he'd use his paws but he doesn't.

It's simply dog language for "yay you are my friend and I'm happy to see you".

If it bothers you then it's easy enough to teach them not to do it without being brutal about it. Just take your arm away from him and pet him. Every time he grabs you simply say "no", remove your arm from his mouth and continue on.

Unfortunately way to many "trainers" have no understanding of canine communication. Failing to be able to understand what dogs are really doing and why causes a lot of people to miss out on a lot of the joy in working with dogs.

Well said!
My pup does "it" and doesn't have a dominant bone in his body (towards humans). You have to pay attention to what your dog is really saying by the actions they make. One dog’s intention could be completely different from another’s. Be careful about taking some ones advice that talks in generalities, very few times can you speak in terms of "all dogs".
One of the reasons successful trainers are in such demand is; they are able to understand and read animals on an individual basis.
I'm not implying that you shouldn't be concerned when a dog grabs you by the wrist. I'm just saying that it can mean more than one thing and all the meanings aren't bad.
IMHO,
dennmor

Moose's father was a dog I essentially rescued from a real heck hole of a "kennel". He'd spent about 12 of his 15 months stuck in a tiny cage inside of an old tin chicken barn. I don't think the pen had ever been cleaned since he'd been stuck in it because the feces/muck was half way up his legs.

Needless to say he had some issues, one of which was that he never wanted to be alone except when hunting; there he was extremely independent. The old man slept with me every night for the rest of his life. One of his quirks was that he would always hold my wrist or hand in his mouth while he slept. Was he "dominating me"??? heck no, it was his way of expressing two things. His affection for me and his fear of waking up alone in that same heck hole again. He would also do the same thing when we were driving down the road, or sitting on the couch if he wanted to sleep. CR

[ezzy333]

I have two dogs that will grab your hand or your pant cuff when they want you to take them outside or play. I have often asked people when they don't seem to understand what they are doing is how would you hold hands if you didn't have hands. Just don't think they have an alternative.

Ezzy

[Litig8r15]

Eric

With all due respect you haven't got a clue here as to canine behavior and communication. I don't care if 9 out of 10 "trainers" agree with you that would simply mean that 90% of "trainers" were ignorant of what's actually going on here.

The dog is initiating the contact in order to elicit a response from his owner. That is dominance.

Initiating contact is not "dominance". A desire for companionship is not dominance. A desire to express affection is not dominance. "Hey you are my friend" and "Please don't leave me" and "Let's play" are not dominance and those are the things being communicated here not "Screw you we're going to do it my way".

Thank God you are training bird dogs. You are dead wrong. I did not say the dog can't initiate any contact. Let's not forget what the dog did. I said the dog was mouthing to elicit a reaction. Mouthing should be extinguished while a puppy. Mouthing is classic dominance. Dominance does not have to equal aggresssion. But allowing a dog to mouth you can lead to aggression. It is not like a nudge with the nose or a bump. Those are also dominant behaviors but can be tolerated. Clearly, from your responses you just don't get it. The dog should not be the one to elicit the responses by mouthing, the owner should be the one eliciting reactions. Canine behavior is not the equivalent of human behavior. They don't think or act like people, it is that simple. You may say I don't know what I am talking about, but you can come visit me and I will show you that I do indeed have a clue. I train large dominant dogs and do it well because I do understand that canine behavior is animal behavior not human behavior. My dogs are obedient on and off leash. And I do it without laying a hand on my dogs or using ecollars or anything other than positive and negative reinforcement to either reinforce a desired behavior or extinguish undesirable behaviors.

The original poster asked if the mouthing was a problem. I answered that I thought it was and you answered by humanizing the actions. The poster can decide for him/herself who they agree with.

Eric

[aylaschamp]

Thank God you are training bird dogs. You are dead wrong. I did not say the dog can't initiate any contact. Let's not forget what the dog did. I said the dog was mouthing to elicit a reaction. Mouthing should be extinguished while a puppy. Mouthing is classic dominance. Dominance does not have to equal aggresssion. But allowing a dog to mouth you can lead to aggression. It is not like a nudge with the nose or a bump. Those are also dominant behaviors but can be tolerated. Clearly, from your responses you just don't get it. The dog should not be the one to elicit the responses by mouthing, the owner should be the one eliciting reactions. Canine behavior is not the equivalent of human behavior. They don't think or act like people, it is that simple. You may say I don't know what I am talking about, but you can come visit me and I will show you that I do indeed have a clue. I train large dominant dogs and do it well because I do understand that canine behavior is animal behavior not human behavior. My dogs are obedient on and off leash. And I do it without laying a hand on my dogs or using ecollars or anything other than positive and negative reinforcement to either reinforce a desired behavior or extinguish undesirable behaviors.

The original poster asked if the mouthing was a problem. I answered that I thought it was and you answered by humanizing the actions. The poster can decide for him/herself who they agree with.

Eric

If you spend time with some of our type of dogs you'll understand that they do in fact pick up "human" types of behavior. The sad thing is he gets it, so do most of us! You can have a pack mentality but some of these dogs go beyond it. Bird dogs pick up quirks! It happens! They don't all behave like your normal canine behavior.

[Sharon]

Moose's father was a dog I essentially rescued from a real heck hole of a "kennel". He'd spent about 12 of his 15 months stuck in a tiny cage inside of an old tin chicken barn. I don't think the pen had ever been cleaned since he'd been stuck in it because the feces/muck was half way up his legs.

Needless to say he had some issues, one of which was that he never wanted to be alone except when hunting; there he was extremely independent. The old man slept with me every night for the rest of his life. One of his quirks was that he would always hold my wrist or hand in his mouth while he slept. Was he "dominating me"??? heck no, it was his way of expressing two things. His affection for me and his fear of waking up alone in that same heck hole again. He would also do the same thing when we were driving down the road, or sitting on the couch if he wanted to sleep. CR

What a great story. Thanks.

[WildRose]

Thank God you are training bird dogs. You are dead wrong. I did not say the dog can't initiate any contact. Let's not forget what the dog did. I said the dog was mouthing to elicit a reaction. Mouthing should be extinguished while a puppy. Mouthing is classic dominance. Dominance does not have to equal aggresssion. But allowing a dog to mouth you can lead to aggression. It is not like a nudge with the nose or a bump. Those are also dominant behaviors but can be tolerated. Clearly, from your responses you just don't get it. The dog should not be the one to elicit the responses by mouthing, the owner should be the one eliciting reactions. Canine behavior is not the equivalent of human behavior. They don't think or act like people, it is that simple. You may say I don't know what I am talking about, but you can come visit me and I will show you that I do indeed have a clue. I train large dominant dogs and do it well because I do understand that canine behavior is animal behavior not human behavior. My dogs are obedient on and off leash. And I do it without laying a hand on my dogs or using ecollars or anything other than positive and negative reinforcement to either reinforce a desired behavior or extinguish undesirable behaviors.

The original poster asked if the mouthing was a problem. I answered that I thought it was and you answered by humanizing the actions. The poster can decide for him/herself who they agree with.

Eric

I'm sorry but you don't have a clue. I've trained dogs for working stock dogs, hog dogs, police dogs, protection dogs, and birddogs. From German Shepherds, to black mouthed curs, to red heelers, and pit bull crosses to any breed of pointing dog you can name.

Mouthing in and of itself is not dominance behavior as I and others have demonstrated. It in and of itself does not lead to aggression or aggressive behaviors. Can it be part of aggressive behavior? Not as discussed in this thread, biting is and does but that's not what we're discussing; but then you'd have to have an understanding of canine communication and behavior to understand that, as well as be able to "read a dog".

A couple of thousand dogs have passed through my hands over the last 25 years and the only one's that ever caused a problem aggression wise were those that I warned the owners were going to bite someone some day. None of those dogs by the way ever "mouthed" in the manner being discussed on this thread.

One might assume from the list below that I might just have some clue about the subject.

FC Rincon Slick Runner-C Rose
CH Rebel Rouser Tascosa Gunslinger - Vizsla - B Stokes
Wildrose 8x Rusty - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Abigail Road - German Shorthaired Pointer - M Gosling
Wildrose Annie's Off 'N Gone - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Dixieland's Legacy - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Dixieland's Magnum - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Dixieland's Rising - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Dixieland's Valentine - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Gretchen's Got Um - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose I'M All Jacked Up - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose I'M Justa Birddog - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose I'm Justa Birddog - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Ima Sassy Girl - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Maggie's Off'N Gone - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Magnum's Golden Girl - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Rincon's Slick - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Ruger's Off'N Gone - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Ruger's Off'n Gone - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose RustyS Dark Side - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Rusty's A Wrenegade - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose Whole Lotta Trouble In Dixie - German Shorthaired Pointer - C Rose
Wildrose's Lil Leipchen - German Shorthaired Pointer - F Menghini

That is a partial list of the dogs I have handled to Placements and wins over just the last three years. Obviously no one is going to change your mind on the subject so you keep doing what you do and I wish you all the success in the world. It is a shame though that you have such a poor understanding of canine emotion and communication because obviously you are missing out on a lot of the joy in working with dogs.

Understanding that dogs have and express emotions does not "humanize them", it simply acknowledges that they are not robots, machines, or mindless and emotionless drones.

You're right about one thing though, let's let those reading the thread decide because I'm certainly done arguing with you. CR

[snips]

I have to agree that mouthing is just a happy greeting. I would not worry about it...

[Neil Mace]

These disagreements are almost always a failure to know and define terms, and then lead to my answer is the right one because I have trained more dogs.

One of the chief definitions of "dominate" is to "control", when a dog grabs your wrist they are indeed trying to control you, it is just in a way that most of us accept and never let it escalate to where it is a problem. Simply because in the other 99% of our interactions with the dog there is no question we are the dominate one.

If, however, you are new to dog training, you could easily let mouth grasping lead to problems. Dogs are dogs, if they can control you some of the time with just grasping your hand, some (perhaps most) will at least try to enforce their way with a nip if it fails, which in rare cases, can lead to a bite. In my dogs, I allow it; for others the I am helping to train, I do not. I know and my dogs know that I am dominate, there is no question. That is just not true with everyone that has dogs.

So if you are new to dogs, do not tend to be overtly dominate, like I believe the questioner to be, I would advise to not allow it.

You ever notice that someone new asks a question, we get in a peeing contest, they get scared off, and we never hear from them again.

Neil

[Sandy Meador]

Neil -

I'm not new to dogs, just pointing ones! I've raised, bred and trained Labs for 35 years, used to run the hunt test circuit all over the east coast. And you won't see me leaving this site, I love it and have learned so much.

Please don't anyone get all PO'd over some of the answers to my question/opinions. Everyone's comments are valued and if everyone did everything the same way we would have a very boring world. Thanks for all the comments/responses.

[Dennmor]

Neil -

I'm not new to dogs, just pointing ones! I've raised, bred and trained Labs for 35 years, used to run the hunt test circuit all over the east coast. And you won't see me leaving this site, I love it and have learned so much.

Please don't anyone get all PO'd over some of the answers to my question/opinions. Everyone's comments are valued and if everyone did everything the same way we would have a very boring world. Thanks for all the comments/responses.

Nicely put
dennmor

[Sharon]

These disagreements are almost always a failure to know and define terms, and then lead to my answer is the right one because I have trained more dogs.

One of the chief definitions of "dominate" is to "control", when a dog grabs your wrist they are indeed trying to control you, it is just in a way that most of us accept and never let it escalate to where it is a problem. Simply because in the other 99% of our interactions with the dog there is no question we are the dominate one.

If, however, you are new to dog training, you could easily let mouth grasping lead to problems. Dogs are dogs, if they can control you some of the time with just grasping your hand, some (perhaps most) will at least try to enforce their way with a nip if it fails, which in rare cases, can lead to a bite. In my dogs, I allow it; for others the I am helping to train, I do not. I know and my dogs know that I am dominate, there is no question. That is just not true with everyone that has dogs.

So if you are new to dogs, do not tend to be overtly dominate, like I believe the questioner to be, I would advise to not allow it.

You ever notice that someone new asks a question, we get in a peeing contest, they get scared off, and we never hear from them again.

Neil

Right on! I have seen it over and over again- one of my pet peeves here. Our purpose should be to help a new person, not show our peers how much we know. We should try to make it simple, bring it down to their level.

[WildRose]

These disagreements are almost always a failure to know and define terms, and then lead to my answer is the right one because I have trained more dogs.

One of the chief definitions of "dominate" is to "control", when a dog grabs your wrist they are indeed trying to control you, it is just in a way that most of us accept and never let it escalate to where it is a problem. Simply because in the other 99% of our interactions with the dog there is no question we are the dominate one.

If, however, you are new to dog training, you could easily let mouth grasping lead to problems. Dogs are dogs, if they can control you some of the time with just grasping your hand, some (perhaps most) will at least try to enforce their way with a nip if it fails, which in rare cases, can lead to a bite. In my dogs, I allow it; for others the I am helping to train, I do not. I know and my dogs know that I am dominate, there is no question. That is just not true with everyone that has dogs.

So if you are new to dogs, do not tend to be overtly dominate, like I believe the questioner to be, I would advise to not allow it.

You ever notice that someone new asks a question, we get in a peeing contest, they get scared off, and we never hear from them again.

Neil

So Neil when you walk into the room and your grand daughter reaches up and grabs your hand or gives you a hug is she dominating you?

Or does it only become dominant behavior when she is trying to drag you into the toy store after you say no? In both cases she's certainly asserting herself, but only in the latter would I consider it an act of dominance.

[Neil Mace]

Dogs are not people.

But knowing my granddaughter she is trying to control me in both cases you give, and if you substitute control for dominance you will better understand what animal behaviorist mean. They see few action as neutral, most things a dogs does is either an act of dominance or subordance, that is how they see the animal world.

Neil

[WildRose]

Dogs are not people.

Gee Neil thanks for that news flash!

If in the modern world all acts must be classified as either dominant or submissive with nothing in between we have a screwed up way of looking at animal behavior these days. On this one I'll just have to buck being trendy.

I will never consider the offering of affection or the asking for it in return as dominant behavior. My wife has this terrible habit of kissing me every time she sees me; guess I'll have to tell her to stop that "dominant behavior".

[Neil Mace]

Rose,

I guess it was just wishful thinking, but I thought you were gone from here.

Unless they are at rest, nearly all behavior of a dog will either be dominant or submissive. As I have said, for most of us, a little minor dominant action is of no concern, and this one, holding your hand in their mouth can be cute.

Please either let this go, or look up anthropomorphic and personification. What my beloved granddaughter and your lovely wife do is not germane to dog behavior.

That said, one of the chief problems in human interaction is that much of our behavior is also either to dominate or submit, to often given with mixed signals. called passive - aggressive. Hand holding and kissing, your examples, are often used to control or signify that the other wishes to be controlled.

But let me explain why I chimed in on this topic. I once had a guy ask me how he could keep his GSP from taking food off the table. Thinking he kept food on the table and left the dog unsupervised, it was a tough one. If he couldn't close the doors, I suggested he train the dog not to go in the dinning room when he was gone. He responded, "No, Neil, you don't understand. He takes the food off the table as we are trying to eat". I just told him he had more problems than I could help him overcome.

I could not imagine a dog taking food off your table more than once.

It is trite, but too many people think dogs are little people in fur coats. They try to reason with them, bribe them, try to put themselves in the dog's place, coax them, put them in time out, etc, until the dog takes a chunk out of them. Now, you, me, and most that post here have no problem with dominance issues with a dog, you just cannot assume that is true for everyone.

Let's just let this die,

Neil

[Benny]

Let's just let this die,
Neil

Indeed.
This is a black and white argument with not a prayers chance of finding the middle, so maybe agree to disagree?
I can't speak for Sandy but I'm guessing she's found a suitable answer/solution at this point anyhow

[wems2371]

Wow, some very dominant posts. Where's the shock collar?

This to me is not necessarily an absolute of one way or the other. There are degrees to everything. As a dog owner, it is your job to know your dog, it's pattern of behavior, and set limits that are appropriate for you. Kudos to you for asking opinions, but you know your dog better than anyone. And since you're not new to dogs, what's your gut feeling and do you feel your dog is acting dominant in other ways?

When my husband comes home and sits in his chair, our gsp will hop on his lap, wrap her front legs around his neck, hover over him and lick his entire face, with her tail wagging the entire time. What would you label that as? I go the simple route and view it as absolute joy to see one of her favorite people on the planet. When we play, she trys to be dominant--grabbing wrists, jumping, play growling if she has a toy in her mouth, wrapping her paws around my arm and walking with me on her hind legs. When I want to be done, one word from me and she's in control and sitting by my side. So who's really the dominant one? I'm not into busting a dog for every action, but rather looking at the overall pattern of behavior and what road we're heading down.

If in the modern world all acts must be classified as either dominant or submissive with nothing in between we have a screwed up way of looking at animal behavior these days. On this one I'll just have to buck being trendy.

AMEN. Dogs are obviously not people, but I believe it woefully short (or extremely arrogant) of us not to believe we share some of the same emotions--just expressed differently.

I guess it was just wishful thinking, but I thought you were gone from here.

Wow, extremely tacky! :roll:

[WildRose]

Well Neil as you well know my vocabulary at least equals yours so there's no need for me to get out the dictionary. I don't believe dogs emotions are as complex as humans but they definitely exist. They also express those emotions and recognizing them is very important. It's very easy to tell when a dog is happy, depressed, or angry. I am therefore definitely not anthropomorphizing, I am merely accepting reality.

I realize that dogs are not humans but I also see that there are a great many "trainers" who discount the idea that dogs have emotions and express them. They view them simply as an animal to be dominated and conquered at ever step in training. Those people end up ruining a lot of soft dogs, and never learn how to read a dog. The dog either simply fits into their training program or it's a "washout".

Failing to understand canine communication and emotional responses lead to lots of problems from ruining the soft dog, to not realizing when a dog is about to turn into a dangerous problem.

One good example is a fear biter. Most of the fear biters I've seen never exhibited any "dominance" issues at all, in fact they were extremely submissive and fearful and their owners didn't recognize the signs until it was too late.

[pear]

CR and Neil, Take it else where.... Thread Locked