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Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby scoelki » Mon May 23, 2011 4:21 pm

Well I have an 8 month old GSP that was given to me at 12 weeks old give or take. I don't know much about the dog's lineage. So I took the dog in because he was such an awesome looking pup and still is. I have taken him to a trainer a few times who uses traps but the pup doesnt really point the birds. He just sniff for the birds or wants to chase it. I take him into fields and he flash points things here and there on who knows what LOL. I have never trained a GSP so I really don't know what to expect. Is it his age or is it something that should just be natural. I am sure I could be the problem as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby birddog1968 » Mon May 23, 2011 6:08 pm

all sounds perfectly normal to me....

He will show you when he's ready to be steadied on birds and he's probably close.
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby gittrdonebritts » Mon May 23, 2011 9:30 pm

so sounds like he is pretty much right on track and I would suggest just socializing the dog teaching it basics like its name and here then if you have the means send it to a Pro near by and go once maybe twice a week to Listen watch and learn from him what he is doing with your dog and how to handle him if it is your first bird dog this will be a big help and pretty much all Pointing breeds are trained in the same fashion its usually the temperament of the dog that dictates how you change the training for each individual animal hope this helps :D ,
Joe
Last edited by gittrdonebritts on Tue May 24, 2011 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby slistoe » Tue May 24, 2011 12:14 am

If the "trainer" is using the traps properly the dog should be pointing them by his 3rd or 4th encounter. Maybe not holding for terribly long, but certainly indicating a defined "point". I have found them to be the quickest, most effective way to bring out the pointing instinct in a dog. But if they are being used improperly with the dog just running at random and putting the birds up they can be equally counter productive to the goal of pointing. Now if they are being used to teach the dog to "hunt' because he lacks then the dog is probably doing fine and the pointing will need to be addressed later after the "hunt" is established.
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby kninebirddog » Tue May 24, 2011 7:31 am

There is a process to begin about getting them to stop to flush ..letting them work the chase out of themselves

also do some check cord word gently impeding forward motion when they make scent contact..I would present the bird not just launch it..so after the dog has made scent contact and is standing still with you GENTLY helping them to stand still not them leaning into the check cord but standing on their own with the check cord just loose enough where there is no pressure on the collar but not so much slack that you do not have control quickly should they break their standing

present bird out front of the dog and then let bird fly off let the dog move forward AFTER the flush and bring to a stop
do not ever get on a dog first learning trying to use its nose to point..assist them quietly get them stopped and get bird presented as until they start to put the pieces together that scenting will be a lot of mental pressure to a dog that just wants to give chase...

This is where I begin teach a point of contact at the flank to mean stand still and I begin the Smith method of teaching and instilling that point of contact so after it is taught in the yard work I can go back to the field and then use the launcher so the dog can commit to what they are ready for or not and launch let them chase and Apply the brakes not slam them just gently bring them to a stop..this is a process that comes over time it is not an over night fix..I see to many people not work this process properly like many other good methods it is only as good as you make of it and if the dots are not connected together according to the big pictures directions you will not get the big picture :wink:

Good Luck
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby scoelki » Tue May 24, 2011 9:24 am

gittrdonebritts wrote:he is 12 weeks old right ? so sounds like he is pretty much right on track and I would suggest just socializing the dog teaching it basics like its name and here then if you have the means send it to a Pro near by and go once maybe twice a week to Listen watch and learn from him what he is doing with your dog and how to handle him if it is your first bird dog this will be a big help and pretty much all Pointing breeds are trained in the same fashion its usually the temperament of the dog that dictates how you change the training for each individual animal hope this helps :D ,
Joe



Well he was 10-12 weeks old when I got him. He is now around 8 months or so. The trainer does a really good job but it is just weekend classes that I take him to. I have not left him there yet.....the reason is I am not sure how much $$$$ I should invest in a dog that I do not know much about or his background. It will cost me alot more in training than buying a pup with proven bloodlines. This is my first GSP. I actually have a 2 year old pointing lab that when he scented his first bird he was on point for at least 5 mins before we had to kick the bird up. He did that at 5 months old. But....I paid alot of money for him :). I took this GSP in on an impulse. I am not sorry I did cause he is a really good dog. Just not sure what I should do. Take him to a trainer or just take him out wild bird hunting this season with me and see how he does. The wife is the tough one on this. She does not want me to shell out the money for a trainer on this dog......What would you guys do?
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby scoelki » Tue May 24, 2011 9:53 am

Here is a pic of them being goofy LOL....

Image
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby h&t » Thu May 26, 2011 6:27 pm

Sounds like the very training my dog needs. I wish I could see it in person, but...
Do you mind expanding on a few things?
What do you mean by 'present' a bird? Throw the bird in front of the dog? Launch from a remote release?
teach a point of contact at the flank to mean stand still

You mean with half hitch on checkcord or else?
How do you apply the breakes when the dog chases? e-collar on the flank?


BTW, good looking web site you have. Especially like your 'mission statement'.

kninebirddog wrote:There is a process to begin about getting them to stop to flush ..letting them work the chase out of themselves

also do some check cord word gently impeding forward motion when they make scent contact..I would present the bird not just launch it..so after the dog has made scent contact and is standing still with you GENTLY helping them to stand still not them leaning into the check cord but standing on their own with the check cord just loose enough where there is no pressure on the collar but not so much slack that you do not have control quickly should they break their standing

present bird out front of the dog and then let bird fly off let the dog move forward AFTER the flush and bring to a stop
do not ever get on a dog first learning trying to use its nose to point..assist them quietly get them stopped and get bird presented as until they start to put the pieces together that scenting will be a lot of mental pressure to a dog that just wants to give chase...

This is where I begin teach a point of contact at the flank to mean stand still and I begin the Smith method of teaching and instilling that point of contact so after it is taught in the yard work I can go back to the field and then use the launcher so the dog can commit to what they are ready for or not and launch let them chase and Apply the brakes not slam them just gently bring them to a stop..this is a process that comes over time it is not an over night fix..I see to many people not work this process properly like many other good methods it is only as good as you make of it and if the dots are not connected together according to the big pictures directions you will not get the big picture :wink:

Good Luck
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby kninebirddog » Thu May 26, 2011 7:35 pm

h&t wrote:Sounds like the very training my dog needs. I wish I could see it in person, but...
Do you mind expanding on a few things?
What do you mean by 'present' a bird? Throw the bird in front of the dog? Launch from a remote release?
teach a point of contact at the flank to mean stand still

You mean with half hitch on checkcord or else?
How do you apply the breakes when the dog chases? e-collar on the flank?


BTW, good looking web site you have. Especially like your 'mission statement'.

kninebirddog wrote:There is a process to begin about getting them to stop to flush ..letting them work the chase out of themselves

also do some check cord word gently impeding forward motion when they make scent contact..I would present the bird not just launch it..so after the dog has made scent contact and is standing still with you GENTLY helping them to stand still not them leaning into the check cord but standing on their own with the check cord just loose enough where there is no pressure on the collar but not so much slack that you do not have control quickly should they break their standing

present bird out front of the dog and then let bird fly off let the dog move forward AFTER the flush and bring to a stop
do not ever get on a dog first learning trying to use its nose to point..assist them quietly get them stopped and get bird presented as until they start to put the pieces together that scenting will be a lot of mental pressure to a dog that just wants to give chase...

This is where I begin teach a point of contact at the flank to mean stand still and I begin the Smith method of teaching and instilling that point of contact so after it is taught in the yard work I can go back to the field and then use the launcher so the dog can commit to what they are ready for or not and launch let them chase and Apply the brakes not slam them just gently bring them to a stop..this is a process that comes over time it is not an over night fix..I see to many people not work this process properly like many other good methods it is only as good as you make of it and if the dots are not connected together according to the big pictures directions you will not get the big picture :wink:

Good Luck



When I present a bird I have it on a tether and slowly drag it out and dog in a check cord ...Basically the reward for those dogs or pups that just have see things and do not want to use their nose...getting them to stand as gently as you can and be quiet when standing they get to see the bird to be mesmerized

I use the Smith method of the whoa post to teach the point of contact in yard work then over lay that to the e collar on the flank we practice till the LIGHT cue just means to stop and they stop standing there not hunched over looking whipped if you have that then stimulation is to high and the dog is feeling punished into standing.that is counter productive

If I have a real stick it in over drive on scent type dog I will bring dog up wind of launchers then just work wild flushes ..launch let the dog commit to the chase then bring them to a nice gentle stop applying the brakes not slamming them

I will do this until the dog begins to stop on their own once we get to the dog to this point then I will begin working them into the scent cone and if the dog roads creeps and sticks it into over drive I will launch the bird let them commit to the chase and then apply the brakes ..I have had some dogs go where I was beginning to wonder if they would ever point and then one day Wham the dog points then I work at them stand there as I walk in front of them
again this is stuff I also practice in yard work
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby ultracarry » Fri May 27, 2011 12:15 am

If you are worried about $$$$ think about dividing the total amount spent by 10 years. Then factor in how much of a pain in the arse it would he to hunt with a dog that may not hold point when its the only bird of the day. If he is not progressing well it might be money well spent. At 8 months ummmmmmm breeding.
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby h&t » Fri May 27, 2011 6:22 am

thanks. I still don't get it 100% but I guess I have to see it :-)
I found this article on Smith whoa post training http://www.huntsmith.com/articles/the-whoa-post-redux.html
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby scoelki » Tue May 31, 2011 4:42 pm

ultracarry wrote:If you are worried about $$$$ think about dividing the total amount spent by 10 years. Then factor in how much of a pain in the arse it would he to hunt with a dog that may not hold point when its the only bird of the day. If he is not progressing well it might be money well spent. At 8 months ummmmmmm breeding.



Well it doesn't have to do with the $$$$. More of the fact is if I should pay the $$$$ for a dog that does not have it in him like you said his breeding. That is what I am questioning. Well I talked to a trainer a few days ago here and he is supposed to be really good. He is taking the pup on July 26th and will have him there for a few months. That is when I want him there cause it gets me closer to hunting season and to have him fresh off some bird training.. Is that too long of a wait to get him with a trainer? He will be 10 months by than. This dog has the enrgy and I can tell he uses his nose and does some flash pointing......Maybe it is just me.
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby scoelki » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:18 pm

Dog has been at the trainer for a few weeks now. He got attacked by a coyote on Father's day while I was out with him off leash in a field at an elementary school :(. I wish I could of shot that "bleep" thing. So he finally made it to the trainer two weeks ago. Tomorrow will be the first time I get to see him since going to the trainer. I hope he is progressing :).
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby ezzy333 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:39 pm

scoelki wrote:
ultracarry wrote:If you are worried about $$$$ think about dividing the total amount spent by 10 years. Then factor in how much of a pain in the arse it would he to hunt with a dog that may not hold point when its the only bird of the day. If he is not progressing well it might be money well spent. At 8 months ummmmmmm breeding.



Well it doesn't have to do with the $$$$. More of the fact is if I should pay the $$$$ for a dog that does not have it in him like you said his breeding. That is what I am questioning. Well I talked to a trainer a few days ago here and he is supposed to be really good. He is taking the pup on July 26th and will have him there for a few months. That is when I want him there cause it gets me closer to hunting season and to have him fresh off some bird training.. Is that too long of a wait to get him with a trainer? He will be 10 months by than. This dog has the enrgy and I can tell he uses his nose and does some flash pointing......Maybe it is just me.

Iwouldn't be too concerned about the breeding effecting the dog pointing. Just sounds like he needs some time and experience.

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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby Sharon » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:45 pm

scoelki wrote:Dog has been at the trainer for a few weeks now. He got attacked by a coyote on Father's day while I was out with him off leash in a field at an elementary school :(. I wish I could of shot that "bleep" thing. So he finally made it to the trainer two weeks ago. Tomorrow will be the first time I get to see him since going to the trainer. I hope he is progressing :).



Great Dane killed by a coyote in Conneticut to-day in the owner's back yard . Coyote pierced an artery.
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Re: Dog kind of pointing...should I be worried?

Postby scoelki » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:08 pm

Good news from Saturday! My GSP is finding birds and going on point =D. I was like a proud Dad that day. He is quartering and finding birds wooohooo!!!. I told the trainer that he doesnt even seem like the same dog. I was so happy I did not have to take the dog home for not hunting. So he will be there another 4-6 weeks. Just before opening day here in CO. I can't wait to see what he will be like than.
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