Chasing the bird after Flush?

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Lance-CO
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Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by Lance-CO » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:41 pm

I have a 6 mo GSP female. How do you stop a pup from chasing the bird? She points and I come in to do the flush. As soon as the bird flushes, the chase is on and I'm worried that she might get too far and I would loose her for good. I train at the Air Force Academy grounds and there is plenty of space. However, I tried calling her but she was too involved in chasing after the bird. She was almost as small as a speck before giving up the chase and returning to me.


Angelo

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birdhunter2424
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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by birdhunter2424 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:55 pm

I am not sure what the correct response is but I ill give you my experience. I let my pup chase her first birds. I have not tried to hold her back but evrytime she chases she doesn't go as far. She is learning that she can not catch them and is returning to find another sooner each time. I tried to bring mine back the first time with the whistle while she was chasing but she wasn't having anything to do with it. Lets see what the experts say.

Matt

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by romeo212000 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:18 pm

At 6 months let her chase to her hearts content. If your real worried about it loop a check cord around her belly and when she goes on point stake it into the ground. But again at this age I would let her build up as much prey drive as possible. When she gets to be about a year of age I would start the breaking process. Then you can break her steady to wing and shot.

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by birdhunter2424 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:19 pm

Oh Angelo i forgot to mention WHERE ARE THE PUPPY PICS :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Are you living on base or just training there.

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by Lance-CO » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:31 pm

birdhunter2424 wrote:Oh Angelo i forgot to mention WHERE ARE THE PUPPY PICS :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Are you living on base or just training there.

I don't have any new pics, but I'll be posting some new ones soon. I just train at the Academy. I'm actually from Monument CO but I'm a retired AF.

Angelo

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dmadis8
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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by dmadis8 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:34 pm

romeo212000 wrote:At 6 months let her chase to her hearts content. If your real worried about it loop a check cord around her belly and when she goes on point stake it into the ground. But again at this age I would let her build up as much prey drive as possible. When she gets to be about a year of age I would start the breaking process. Then you can break her steady to wing and shot.
I agree with romeo. Let the pup chase birds at her age. 6 months is still a young pup and you want to bring out the natural drive in the pup. I think a lot of people push their dogs too fast because they got a hunting dog and want to hunt or read how young other dogs are farther along in training. My first dog I tried to take the chase out of too early and now he is a boot licker. My new dog spent her very young days chasing wild birds in SD and she is bird CRAZY!

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by bowhunter1221975 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:50 am

romeo212000 wrote:At 6 months let her chase to her hearts content. If your real worried about it loop a check cord around her belly and when she goes on point stake it into the ground. But again at this age I would let her build up as much prey drive as possible. When she gets to be about a year of age I would start the breaking process. Then you can break her steady to wing and shot.
like romeo stated let her chase it what that pup needs you will see that she will chase less and less distance just keep that pup on them birds it will get most of the training it needs from them then you can just add manners when it is a little bit older
RICHARD NANCE

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by BellaDad » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:03 am

I wouldn't waste your breath yelling and commanding the dog when she's chasing the bird. First off, she's probably not going to listen and by continually yelling and commanding with her not obeying you're teaching her that she doesn't have to listen. I was told when I started training my dog, NEVER give a command that you can't enforce.

My dog, just over 7 months old now did the same thing and she still does but she chases far shorter and gives up earlier than she did a month ago. She's figuring out that she can't catch them when they're in the air and the only way to get it herself is for me to shoot it.

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by gonehuntin' » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:36 pm

At six months the pup should still be on a cc. I don't let them chase further than the cc, then blow two blasts of the whistle and break them off. I've never seen a lot of value in letting a pup chase a bird all over the countryside. The first 50' gives you what you want.

I do have them handling a lot of clipwings in the yard at this time to build the retrieving desire.
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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by Sprig » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:52 pm

i do agree with the comments of the dog needs to "get the chasing out its system" but that isnt all that needs to be done. the dog needs to be trained with an e-collar to come back when called, preferably with a tone button from the collar. I had this same problem with a clients dog that i fixed recently and its not a hard thing to deal with, the only problem is not to dampen the dog's drive and desire as you try and curb the bird chasing. if the dog is 6 months old, let the dog keep chasing and figuring it out for a few more months before you add the collar but be working on "come" so the dog is very very solid on that command when the e-collar comes into the equation.
just my 2 cents

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by kylenicholas02 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:53 pm

Another way i break my dogs from this is random place pigeons in the field when your shooting birds for the dog. When the dog points go in flush the bird, shoot (missing the bird), and then give the dog a "leave it command" and walk the opposite direction. I would wait till your dog is at that point ie collar conditioned, had several birds killed, and chased a bunch of em... But also stake the dog the first several time and possibly consider slipping a choke chain or pinch collar on the dog... Just make sure you give the command prior to the dog catch the end of the cord.. I usually start this around 10-12 months old depending on dog
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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:11 pm

Don't ever use a choke chain as it can and does injure the dogs throat if it hits it hard or if you even jerk on it. A broad pinch collar is much safer.

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by AHGSP » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:46 pm

Angelo,

Knowing the breeding on your pup, stop the chase with a check cord now. She is going to mature fast and it would be better to get a handle on her now, then to wait until later, especially if she is starting to get a lil ragged on you now. Unless of course you're thinking about Trialing her.....

Would love to see some pix of her and hear how she is coming along for you!
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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by fratelle » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:34 pm

Hi,
Angelo from Australia our quail season just opened this weekend took my 9 mth GSP first time in the field he did the same thing chased every bird he lifted by the end of the day he was pointing and holding well but not perfect as he worked out he could not catch them. I will get him on the bird launcher thru this week just to teach him not to chase. It is amasing to watch them in the scent cone he would be going flat out and then come to a grinding halt.

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by slistoe » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:33 am

BellaDad wrote:I wouldn't waste your breath yelling and commanding the dog when she's chasing the bird. First off, she's probably not going to listen and by continually yelling and commanding with her not obeying you're teaching her that she doesn't have to listen. I was told when I started training my dog, NEVER give a command that you can't enforce.

My dog, just over 7 months old now did the same thing and she still does but she chases far shorter and gives up earlier than she did a month ago. She's figuring out that she can't catch them when they're in the air and the only way to get it herself is for me to shoot it.
I figured this needed highlighting. One of the biggest problems I see with virtually every new dog owner. They inadvertently teach something they never would want to teach - that a command is optional.

It is very easy to catch up your dog when they take off chasing a bird. Stay right where the bird flushed because when they lose track of the original flushed bird they remember exactly where it came from and will be right back there forthwith to try and find another one. Then you catch up the CC and when you have the control to ensure compliance call them in to you and praise them up. Do not disturb the area much at all while you wait because one of the most powerful incentives for the dog to give off the chase and return is for them to find another bird in the same area when they come back.

PS- note that the 6 mo. dog is running a Check Cord. Use it folks.

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by slistoe » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:24 am

kylenicholas02 wrote:... But also stake the dog the first several time and possibly consider slipping a choke chain or pinch collar on the dog... Just make sure you give the command prior to the dog catch the end of the cord..
The choke chain is a very useful tool when used properly and for what is intended, but as ezzy has already pointed out, NEVER use a choke chain for this purpose.

Uplander

Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by Uplander » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:20 pm

For what it's worth, I consider the chasing a positive aspect of your dog's development at that age. What it tells me is that your dog has a healthy prey drive but isn't ready for the next step which in my process uses neither a choke or pinch collar. I would simply allow that dog to chase for awhile yet (using birds it cannot catch under ANY circumstance). You will soon know when to introduce some manners as your dog will still want to chase but you will notice that it is a feeble or short-lived effort.
Now, some strong minded dogs will chase even though many birds have eluded him/her. You still will notice some subtle signs that tell you, "OK.... enough....time to move on." At this point, you need to introduce one of the many methods to start your dog on the path to steadiness but not before.
The best part about this approach as opposed to cc-ing a dog prematurely is that when your dog buys into this plan, it rarely lets you down whether it has a find at 50 or 500yards - whether in the open or in dense cover. The reason is, the dog realizes that it has been here before (many times) and the results were not as gratifying as they are when it does things your way - the right way.
Birds+time+repeat+patience+a little savvy = an awesome reliable classy dog! No need to rush.

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:54 pm

slistoe wrote:
kylenicholas02 wrote:... But also stake the dog the first several time and possibly consider slipping a choke chain or pinch collar on the dog... Just make sure you give the command prior to the dog catch the end of the cord..
The choke chain is a very useful tool when used properly and for what is intended, but as ezzy has already pointed out, NEVER use a choke chain for this purpose.
command leads choke chain or any other choke release type collars should never be used in a manner where a dog can gain a momentum and it crushing the tightening of these leads or collars can be constricted at a high velocity and potential crush the trachea

When I have a dog that likes to chase birds ...i will use a check cord for pups

when they are older I use the rick and Ronnie smith method of whoa post teach the dog the cue of stopping with a cue to the flank area once the dog understands when cued with continuous till stopped at the flank means to stop moving then i will proceed to the field and flush birds when the dog commences chase i will cue them to stop

i can not stress enough it isn't about shocking a dog shutting them down it is about a level of stimulation which the dog will respond to with out detracting or causing fear and confusion

here is a young dog that had a spell of wanting to chase birds you can see here where her concentration is on she isn't worried about anything and that is how I want my dogs all about birds
Image
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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by Lance-CO » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:28 pm

AHGSP wrote:Angelo,

Knowing the breeding on your pup, stop the chase with a check cord now. She is going to mature fast and it would be better to get a handle on her now, then to wait until later, especially if she is starting to get a lil ragged on you now. Unless of course you're thinking about Trialing her.....

Would love to see some pix of her and hear how she is coming along for you!

Sorry it took a long time to post some pictures. Abby slipped on the patio stairway last memorial day. The Vet had to operate and put 2 pins to correct the problem. Ouch!! $1400.00 for the the whole procedure. After a couple months of healing, she went on heat. We started training last week but I forgot my camera and iPhone. I took a couple of pictures today w/ my phone. She is pointing at least 25- 30 ft on both pictures

Image

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by kninebirddog » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:47 pm

Nice pictures

Only thing I see which I will bring up the e collar is not on properly it is loose and low on the neck...it should be up as close to the neck and under the ears as possible and yes on snug where you snug up to the tightest hole on the collar with out force wrenching it this will make it where the contact points make proper contact even when you are just putting it on and not using it it should always be put on properly so the dog also doesn't learn the when sloppy and low means nothing and when up high and snug means business :wink:
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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by Luigi » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:03 am

I myself am going to introduce my 4 month pup to birds (quail) next weekend. It si going to be its first time at game. I live next to a big public park that has got some wild pigeons, he points them when at sight, but he´s never really been able to run freely in some countryside with wild game such as quail or partdrige.

As it has been said i think it is important to only give orders that will be obliged.
But I also believe that it is important that the dog explores and is minimally independent.

I´ve got a 32in (10m) Check Cord, and i would love for my dog to run at least at around 50m in front, so with this in mind i thought of the following. Should I let him run with the CC hanging, for some time and then when he returns (when hes tired) and I'm able to get a hold of it use the command COME? Maybe its a dumb idea, but I would apreciate some feedback.

Thanks (please excuse my english)

Luigi

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Re: Chasing the bird after Flush?

Post by gdog » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:04 pm

I'm working on stopping the chase with my 7 mnth old PP now. My problem is it's all about the chase...and heck with the point. No lack of drive....just lack of wanting to put the breaks on and point instead of full steam ahead.

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