pointer chasing wild birds

[bluzulu]

Im sure you have all answered this question 100 times before, but panic has set in making searching the forum difficult due to trembling hands.
Tried my 8 month english pointer on wild francolin and guineafowl he wont point and as soon as they flush he barks and gives chase. Many of you say keep them on wild birds, but this seems leaving it to chance or am I worried about nothing.
He is not a strong pointer I have seen himpoint at some song birds and his folks are great dogs.
Stick with wild birds or go to pigeons and more controlled environment?

[gonehuntin']

Go to the pigeons and teach him to break off a flying bird in your training field. Don't put pressure on him in the hunting field until he understands what the pressure is about.

[Benny]

Personally I'm taking a liking to place boards. Wild birds don't always break the dog of the chase.

[Nebraska]

Personally I'm taking a liking to place boards. Wild birds don't always break the dog of the chase.

What's a place board?

[Benny]

Kind of like the barrel but its just a raised 3x4 felted board (cedar 2x4"'s support) that's more for yard work. Once you've got them working the placeboard correctly, you should be able to toss a pigeon out in front of them. No its not a sight-pointing scheme, just for staunchness. Really gives you a leg up as yard work DOES transfer to the field.
I would follow that up by having your dog on the CC on planted birds; when the dog scents you can tighten up (but not pull him/her back).

[Sharon]

I'm no expert but it seems to me that folks try to break their young dog too early. I let mine chase until they figure out they can't catch it and start to creep, point and then I start the breaking process. What is the big hurry ?

[Benny]

I'm no expert but it seems to me that folks try to break their young dog too early. I let mine chase until they figure out they can't catch it and start to creep, point and then I start the breaking process. What is the big hurry ?

I agree, it seems like dogs will chase birds for a year or so before they really start slowing down on the chippy birds. The placeboard thing is just basic obedience stuff, though. No pressure really and our gun dog trainer is doing it with pups and the clicker treat method.

[Sprig]

Actually if your dog is not as strong in the pointing area yet, you dont want to worry about him chasing flushing birds just yet. having him chase those birds will help his bird/point desire and eventually if under a controlled environment with launchers, it will help steady him up too. its like trying to steady up a lab for retrieving before the dog's retrieving desire is built up. let the dog chase the birds for a while and use bird launchers if you have access to them so you can control when they are released. trying to stop a dog that is weak in the point from chasing flyers will only dampen the pointing desire and he might possibly start to blink the birds which is an even bigger problem than chasing flyers. you can always stop the chasing down the road but if you dont have a strong point, that should be worked on first.

[jhoughton]

You can't "TRAIN" your dog to point. It is in there from generations of selective breeding and genetics. Keep running him on the wild birds and when he matures and is ready he will begin to point. Most of us wish we had plentifull wild birds to get a dog started on. Stick with it and the point will come out. You are worrying about nothing...there is no training exercise that will beat wild birds for getting a dog to point in my opinion. Growing up, we never had pigeons or pen raised quail for our dogs up in NH. We would let the pups go and take long walks in the woods and after bumping enough grouse, they would start pointing.

Im sure you have all answered this question 100 times before, but panic has set in making searching the forum difficult due to trembling hands.
Tried my 8 month english pointer on wild francolin and guineafowl he wont point and as soon as they flush he barks and gives chase. Many of you say keep them on wild birds, but this seems leaving it to chance or am I worried about nothing.
He is not a strong pointer I have seen himpoint at some song birds and his folks are great dogs.
Stick with wild birds or go to pigeons and more controlled environment?

[natetnc]

You can't "TRAIN" your dog to point.

this is true. your dog is young, don't move too fast, give it some time, no need to freak out about anything with an 8 month old pup. it has shown a good level of prey drive which is good, the rest should come. as long as the dog isn't catching the birds let it chase, it will give in soon enough. to enourage the dog not to chase you may want to make it tote around a nice sized chain to slow it down. after a while the chain will make the dog more cautious not to bump the bird because it will be harder to chase and get tiresome to the dog....... give it a try. it won't work overnight but should help.

something to think about. i have heard from more than one trainer that dogs with intensity and style were allowed to be puppies, in other words they were not pressured to do their job, they were either natural or given the chance to develop. there are some dogs that are forced into doing their job and are good dogs but you can look at them work and see the spark that is missing.

[R-Middleton]

Some dogs will chase until they are old and gray if you don't help them learn not to chase.

Good luck,
Ray Middleton

[Benny]

Some dogs will chase until they are old and gray if you don't help them learn not to chase.

Good luck,
Ray Middleton

^ ^ ^ yeah what he said Got living proof if anyone wants to take my dog for a walk.

[gonehuntin']

I have never understood why people think it beneficial for a dog to chase a bird. If you want to make a dog birdie, let them retrieve some clipwings where they can actually handle the bird. It will make him far birdier and build retrieving desire as well.

Then there's the safety factor. If you live or train anywhere near roads with traffic, letting them chase is suicide.

Range will develop on it's own. Allthough I never let a dog chase, I never restrict it's range when it's free timing or hunting off a cc.

I know it's deeple entrenched in pointing dog tradition to "let em' chase". I don't buy it and I've never done it. All I can see is negatives coming from it, and no positives.

[Ruffshooter]

Are you in Africa or some place like that? If so chasing may be not so good as in what is over the next hill?

Your dog has the desire to have the bird, he does not knwo why at this point. But he wants it. Eventually you will give it to him, shooting the bird. I personally would get off birds now and work on your yard work. Using pigeons or what ever you have will be used in that training.

Good luck.
Rick

[578SLE]

I am posting this comment as much as a question as a suggestion. Chasing birds endlessly just seems to reward the dog for its behavior and prolong your intent (the point). Moreover, chasing will be something you have to un-teach or fix later once the dog is pointing if you plan to steady the dog to wing, shot, and fall.

Why not teach the dog now stop to flush (STF) --taking the chase out of the equation? You can do this very easily with a check cord, e-collar, a launcher, and a few birds. Once the dog understands STF and is not chasing birds it flushed reliably, you can run that dog all you want on wild birds and even encourage the dog to run up birds and flush them. Once it realizes that the fun (the chase) has been eliminated via STF, that dog will learn that the only chance it has to maintain the thrill of the hunt is to keep the bird on the ground and, as a result, it will point.

Then, once the dog starts pointing you need to shoot a bird or two for the dog while restraining the dog on a check cord through wing, shot, and fall. Once the bird hits the ground, you bring the bird back to the dog. This allows the dog to see the whole process and teaches the dog that it gets a reward (finally a "bird" in its mouth!) for pointing and being steady. Then, you can start filling in the gaps: honoring, staunchness, etc...

What do you guys think?