One month later - Shy GSP Pup

[Pawshela]

Original thread http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 89&t=17746

One month later and she has gone from cowering in her crate or dog house, to greeting me when I get home from work. She's figured out its ok to play when no one is watching her, but still ducks and hides when she figures all eyes are on her.

Still working on the socializing skills with other people/animals. Family and neighbors she's gotten to the point of actually standing and politely offering her ears to be scratched instead of dropping herself to the floor in submission. She's learned that its ok to leave my side for a tossed toy, I won't eat her for leaving me, and that car rides can be fun, they can lead to new places to walk.

Here is my current problem. I cannot get her away from my side unless I toss a toy. I thought at first it was just fright/shyness in new territory, but she absolutely loves walking the property, smelling new things etc. Her tail is wagging frantically from side to side, but her head never leaves the middle of my thigh, and she is pressed so close I have a hard time not to trip. I walk with a leash attached to her collar, but dragging, and she does the same thing off leash.

A friend told me that it appears to him that she might have been 'obedience' trained after all as a little one because she is wrapped around me like the 'heelers' he has seen at some local shows. There have been a couple of occasions where the scents around her have just been too irresistible and she gives in to my encouragement to move out and explore, she goes out about 20 ft, then stops and runs back to me, wrapping herself around my left side. She absolutely will not move out away from me if I am also moving, despite encouragement. She is not cowering or acting scared, she is wound up like a spring and excited but just wont let herself go...

I don't have any idea what to do in this situation, every dog I've had it's been a job to train them to come back/stay with me, not let them know its ok to do what nature intended them to do.

[MB]

Can you take her to fields with game in them? Do you have any other bird dogs you can run her with?

[dugger13]

What about just standing there, Stay still for 4-5 minutes. the dog may just start to adventure out inch by inch.

[Benny]

Ditto, spend a day on the porch with a chest full of cold beer. Remember, this is an assignment, so at least light beer . I'd be real surprised if that dog didn't at least wander off for a sniff or two.

[Sharon]

Your dog feels safe with you. You've done well. You said in your earlier post that this dog had issues etc. You've made some gains but the issues are not going to disappear. Time x time is needed to bring this dog as far as it can go. It's lucky to have you.

[aylaschamp]

My thought is to find her a play friend. Do you have a friend with a puppy? Not too small yet not too aggressive? Dogs can help each other out. I recently purchased a dog that , unbenounced to me, had been a kennel for 6 months. I also had a pup GSP that has really brought her out of her shell. Watch around kids, they are small and scary! Sometimes dogs will bight out of fear. I found that out the hard way, it was a close call. Also when running in the field another dog is great to build confidence.

[MikeB]

Try to teach her to lie down a little farther from you on a down stay. Sit stay the same. Build her confidence slowly to be farther away from you but where shd can still see you. This may help the walk.

Understand this in not your normal dog your working with so you can't compare it to any other dog you have worked with. She is a very special case and must be worked with slowly with lots of praise and little correction or punishment.

[Pawshela]

Thank you for the responses.

She is really a sweetheart <grin>

I don't have another dog to run her with at the moment.

If I am sitting, lounging or relaxing she does move away from me, about 20 ft, or if I toss something for her she will run to play with it, but immediately comes back.

If I am standing up, or walking, that is when she clings to my left side. If we are in a field and a rabbit busts up in front of us she'll stand their with her tail wagging a million miles an hour looking up at me and whine, but wont move off even with encouragement. haven't seen any birds yet.

You are right, it definitely will take patience, I don't mind that.

I like the idea of the down stay/ sit stay. Will try that.

[Tejas]

Is the dog trained to go into a portable kennel? If so, take the kennel out to your yard and get the dog to go enter it from gradually increasing distances. As time goes on get to the point where the dog will "kennel" from 100-200 ft. away.....you may have to go to a park or other site if your yard is too small. What you are trying to accomplish is to get the dog to respond to a command to go away from you. If it works eventually you eliminate the kennel, but the dog should still respond to the command and get away from your side and over time it should gain confidence in staying away.

[volraider]

birds! birds! birds! Get some pigeons and tie an 8x11 piece of cardboard to it's leg and let it go. The dog should go after the bird, she may not reach in and grab it yet but she should run after it. Let her catch it, eat it , or anything else she wants to do to it right now is a time to build boldness not train her. When she starts really going after the pigeons move to good flying quail that she cannot catch.

[aylaschamp]

Whoa,,,,,I'm not going to tell anyone how to do there stuff but a pup that's scared of it's own shadow doesn't need to see birds yet. JMO

[rockllews]

I like the "kennel" idea. Or take her out somewhere fairly open and just ignore her when she's at your side; stay put when she leaves. Cut back on the encouragment when she's away- I'd think the more you're talking, the more you're making her depend on you. If she looks to you when she's away, just smile at her. You can pick a direction to walk in, look or turn your body that way, or use an arm signal, and move off; as long as it's obvious and she's paying attention, she shouldn't be worried about being left behind.

Does she behave differently when you take the leash all the way off?

Also, to keep her off your side, I'd try using what I think is called a "power bar" ??. Take about four feet of pvc and run your leash or a short check cord through it, knot it at one end, with the snap at the end of the other. Get her used to walking a foot or two away but still at a heel.

Good job with the progress you've both made. It's awesome she's in such patient hands.

[BoJack]

Try getting some pigeons,homers or trapped wild ones.Get a bird bag with the shoulder strap.While walking her get one out and show it to her and let it flap one wing to key her up,then just toss it out for her and see if she'll chase it,if not keep trying it a few times.Then try and plant or dizzy a few for her to look for and find.Then let her flush them and chase or you flush for her.It'll teach her that the fun is Out There not by your side.

[ezzy333]

I think it is more a matter of time than anything else. You are just a month into this and that isn't very long. But since she seems to have an interest in birds I like Bojacks idea if you want to try to hurry her along a little. But most importantly let her set her own time schedule and don't put any pressure on her to leave your side. She has to make that decision on her own and all you can do is try to intice her which will make it easier for her.

Ezzy

[Benny]

I think it is more a matter of time than anything else. You are just a month into this and that isn't very long. But since she seems to have an interest in birds I like Bojacks idea if you want to try to hurry her along a little. But most importantly let her set her own time schedule and don't put any pressure on her to leave your side. She has to make that decision on her own and all you can do is try to intice her which will make it easier for her.

Ezzy

Total agreement. The odds of your dog never leaving your side are the same odds that the Raiders are going to win another championship. It will just take time and you should continue to pat yourself on the back for taking in a dog that's a little shy. A majority of gun-dog trainers would see baggage, and you're doing an incredible job so far.

Cheers!

[Pawshela]

I wanted to say thanks for all the suggestions. She is getting more forward when we are walking the lanes between the barns. Cannot run the fields here for a couple of months. Working on the basic commands while playing at the moment.

Thought I'd upload a picture finally. Here she is waiting for me to throw her stuffed sock toy to retrieve.

[578SLE]

This sounds like a case where a dog could really learn from other dogs.

I know you said you did not have another dog, but I bet if you contacted a local breeder of GSPs and explained your situation you could set up some weekend "play dates." Many breeders are so concerned about the breed that they work to place rescue dogs and hearing what you are doing with this dog is right up their alley.

These breeders will probably know this, but what you want to do is run your dog off lease for 20-30 minutes with other friendly dogs its own age or even younger through a field. You are trying build confidence in your dog and the idea is that seeing other confident dogs moving freely and ranging out will eventually transmit confidence to your dog --teaching that it is safe to roam out. Your dog may not range as far at first, perhaps only a 4-6 feet away from you, but that is o.k. Just keep running her with them and she will begin to do what they do --it may take several months. Once your dog is acting like the other younger dogs, time to start running her with the big dogs that are friendly and range farther out. You would be surprised how much these pack animals learn from other dogs. You can also start to work on some training in this setting. When the other dogs are called in via a whistle, your dog will also learn to come on a whistle because it doesn't want to be left behind, search for game, "come around," etc... IMO, finding other dogs to run with and build confidence is very, very, important.

After a while, you can try a few birds, but you don't want to have a pigeon blow up in this dog's face. That could make an already unconfident dog even more nervous --especially around birds. That would be a very bad thing. So, proceed with caution. Try some young quail. Dispatch one and just play fetch with it a few times (4-6 throws) and see if you can spark the dog's interest with a dead bird. After that, put the bird away. On another day, put a quail in a nylon stocking or fish netted sock to prevent it from startling the dog. This one can be alive. Again play fetch or chase or whatever. Let the dog do whatever it wants with this one --even if it kills it. Once the dog shows confidence with these birds, time to move to some live quail with the flight feathers removed and a twisted rubber band around its feet --one loop around foot, then several twists in the middle, and another loop around the other foot. The idea is to allow the bird some movement without letting it fly away or run off. Your dog needs to pick this bird up and preferably kill it. The purpose here is to show you that your dog is confident enough to dominate a live bird. If the dog is not confident enough to pick up a live bird and/or kill it then it will not make a good gun dog. Only do this once --you don't want to ingrain the dog with the idea that it can catch birds. Then you can move on to releasing some carded birds and letting the dog chase. Get to this stage and your on your way.