Gun Dog Forum

How do you stop a dog from shaking the heck out of the bumper while retrieving it back to you (electronic collar not an option as she initally had some retrieving issues and is over that part)? As we will be gearing up for spring training with live birds in 2 weeks, I'm afraid this action might transfer from the bumper to the bird....

Are you putting the bumpers up after training...just curious.

yes ... And only throw the bumper maximum of 3 times up to 4 days a week.....

And I'm guessing by the pics in your signature you're not using soft bumpers, sooooo...
I think you're going to have to start thinking about FF time. I don't know if the dog is too young or not, though. Has your dog had a bird in mouth yet?

Tammy,

Another option might be to get some of the bumpers that look like a duck where the head is attached with a cord. The theory is when the dog shakes the bumper they are going to get whacked with the head and pretty soon they'll realize shaking isn't as much fun as they thought! Unfortunately, shaking comes pretty natural to dogs and can be a problem to overcome. I've lucked out thus far in that both my dogs shake the heck out of their toys, but this has not translated to birds (knock on wood!)...

Randy

Dokken Dead Fowl with the head attached by a cord might be worth a try....

EDIT: I see Goat beat me too it.

I hadn't thought of those last two tips. I totally agree, that sounds like an excellent way of breaking the shaking.

The bumper also has a cord (for throwing) & she whips it back & forth so hard that she's whipped my hand with the cord (and her head - which doesn't stop her) when she's retrieve it & sitting at my feet (man, it hurts too!). She's learned to not drop it until I reach out my hand and say "give". By correcting her when she whips it, I'm afraid that I will make her drop it prematurely thereby ruining the "give" (she's been forced "hold"). She has been on pen raised birds last fall (and was at a professional trainer's in Ohio for 3 1/2 mos last summer - this "shaking" only just recently started). Then winter hit here in AK & we won't start training with pen raised birds until May (should be flight ready from the place we buy them from). I do have one of those dokken dead fowl birds with a cord for the neck, but she doesn't retrieve the darn thing as well as she retrieves the dummy. Last week we threw out a frozen chukar for her to retrieve - she grabbed it & shook the darn thing all the way in to us....
Maybe I'm jumping the gun & she won't do it with live birds, but I'm just open to suggestions & opinions on a potential problem.....
Thanks for the responses!

Benny wrote:And I'm guessing by the pics in your signature you're not using soft bumpers, sooooo... I don't know if the dog is too young or not, though. Has your dog had a bird in mouth yet?

No soft bumpers.... She will be 2 in June..... Has had live birds (and dead). Was professionally trained for 3 1/2 mos from June to September last year.... only recently has she started to shake & whip the bumper & then the frozen chukar.... UGH!

FF. More specifically, hold training would be where you teach the proper behavior.

MB wrote:FF. More specifically, hold training would be where you teach the proper behavior.

Judging by the second to last post I think she's gone through force holding.
However, K.I., there might be some gaps in the training that just need refreshing. If you have the time I don't see how getting the dog back on the table couldnt hurt. The dog knows a certain amount of pressure, and perhaps if this shaking problem shows up on the table, it can be corrected right then and there.

That's why there is force fetch. At the minimum, if you don't want to ff a dog, give it a thorough course in hold.

When the dog is coming to you and starts shaking the bumper, immediately say NO! and take one step toward the dog, then firmly commanding HERE!. The dog is playing and not working. You have to make the dog understand when it's time to play and when it's time to work.

gonehuntin' wrote:The dog is playing and not working

Yep,,, I've heard the ol'timers say "shake it more than twice and your playin with it".

If the dog has already been force trained to hold, then you need to reinforce that with whatever correction that you use. Hold means just that, hold it and don't shake it, don't chew it, don't drop it, just stand there and hold it. (It should be the e collar as this is the only you can reinforce the hold command at a distance.)

You may need to go back to the bench to brush up if you can't reinforce the command on the ground.

Doug

I'll go back to the refresher couse & give it a whirl. I'll also try the "No!" command & see how that goes. I'm hesitant in using the "No" due to the fact she did have a retrieve issue back last summer (wouldn't bring it back, dropped it halfway if she did bring it back, flew by it & acted like it wasn't there - hence I flew her out for pro training).... I would hate to give her the impression that I didn't want her to have it & she drops it!
Thanks again folks for all your replys - will keep you informed on how it goes...
Tammy

I'd be careful with the no command until you find out if your pro used it for anything. I use no when I want a dog to leave a bird alone and not pick it up.

Doug

UPDATE: Just got back running her in the field. Had her "Hup" (sit) at feet & threw the bumper. Used her name to go fetch. Upon fetching it, she proceeds quick as you please to whip the bumper. Screamed "No!" while walking towards her. She stops whipping it & heads in... half way started to whip it & with a yelled "NO" and with a fast approach towards her she stops.... all without dropping the bumper.... So, will continue to see if I can improve on this. Also will email the trainer & ask his advise.... Thanks Guys!

If you don't want to use NO, keep a 50' long 1/8" thick nylon cc on the dog. Throw the bumper or bird. Keep the slack out of the line when the dog picks up the bumper and starts in. When it starts to shake the object, command HERE and give a short, sharp tug on the cc. That was without using a collar you are transfering directly and instantly to the dog what it's incorrect action is.

If the dog went to a pro with a retrieving problem, did the pro ff the dog? Did he collar break the dog?

gonehuntin' wrote:If you don't want to use NO, keep a 50' long 1/8" thick nylon cc on the dog. Throw the bumper or bird. Keep the slack out of the line when the dog picks up the bumper and starts in. When it starts to shake the object, command HERE and give a short, sharp tug on the cc. That was without using a collar you are transfering directly and instantly to the dog what it's incorrect action is.

If the dog went to a pro with a retrieving problem, did the pro ff the dog? Did he collar break the dog?

GH - I'll use the check cord this weekend to see if it will work ..... pro did ff/fh the dog (using the board). We did not want to do the electronic collar as spaniels shouldn't need one. She's retrieving(& holding) beautiful now - just that darn shaking stuff started to recently happen.....

Killer Instinct wrote:
GH - I'll use the check cord this weekend to see if it will work ..... pro did ff/fh the dog (using the board). We did not want to do the electronic collar as spaniels shouldn't need one. She's retrieving(& holding) beautiful now - just that darn shaking stuff started to recently happen.....

Then the correction will be a little different. Give a sharp jerk on the cord and command, NO, HOLD! It's a slight difference but if she was properly ff'd, she'll immediately know what she'd doing wrong and correct it.

GH, just thinking here. If you have the check cord on dog shakes, would a jerk on the cc and a here command be less confusing to the dog. It seems the dog actually is stopping in its tracks when commanded no. With out the no and the jerk the correction and here the command the dog is completeing its duty with less intruption. Just a thought, what do you think?

I think you are right, the NO could be eliminated and HOLD substituted. The reason I say HOLD is a better command than here is that when the dog was force broken, it should have been taught to stand motionless, without moving it's head or jaws. In reality I think you're right that either one will work and by commanding HERE instead of HOLD, you are reinforcing the command to come to you. Either one should work, it's a horse apiece, but you probably have a point on eliminating the NO.