Sitting Instead of Whoaing

[FarleysMaster]

I have an English Setter in training, hasn't hunted yet, and lately he has begun sitting when I tell him to whoa. Then when I put him up on his four legs he tucks in his tail as if he's being punished. Anyone here ever have this problem, and if so, what did you do to solve it?

[hustonmc]

Sitting when given other commands usually indicates a timid dog or a dog with to much pressure applied to him. Basically it is an escape hatch from your training. This is a rather simple method and quite easy to do. First I'll stress repetition, repetition, repetition. Short sessions and always end on a good note, just the basics, right. We want to slow down your training, just take it easy. Kids go through 9 months per grade no matter how fast they progress, just take your time.

Now there is a correction for this method, I use a training session of Heel & Whoa on a leash. I'm going to assume your dog is "heel" broke or at least has the basic idea. Start by saying "heel" and go for a walk in your yard. After a few feet just stop, don't jerk your dog or give him a bop just tighten the lead and have him stop. Then again repeat with "heel" You are not giving the "whoa" command, just stopping. If the dogs starts to sit, anticipate this and say "heel" and move on. This keeps the dog off balance, no time to decide to sit or stop and realizes it's alot easier to just stop. After your dog stops when you stop, on a consitant basis you just simply say "whoa" when you stop. Same method as before, no jerking, no bopping, just stop and say "whoa." Again if the dog starts to sit, say "heel" and proceed. This typical should take a few weeks, there is nothing fast in dog training and ignore the ones that tell you otherwise.

Again I want to stress the word "anticipate." You want to be a step ahead of the dog, know when he is going to make that mistake so you can be on top of it and correct it before it escalates. If you have any further questions feel free to PM me, it can get a little overwhelming in this forum from time to time.

[FarleysMaster]

I will certainly try that. Thanks a lot.

[FarleysMaster]

You guessed right by the way, he is a timid dog...yet he also seems to be stubborn as a mule. A bad combination because I'm finding it hard to balance the negative reincforcement with the positive.

[gonehuntin']

You guessed right by the way, he is a timid dog...yet he also seems to be stubborn as a mule. A bad combination because I'm finding it hard to balance the negative reincforcement with the positive.

If that is true, you have the most difficult of all dogs to train. I, personally, wouldn't own another. Many times these dogs like this are not as soft as you think. They are difficult dogs to read.

I'll let a dog get away with that for so long, then stop him. I'll maybe start as advised, but I never stop the jerks with the lead. Those jerks are cues to the dog and later the ecollar will be substituted for the jerk. Do just as advised, but add the jerks. It is when the dog tries to sit that you jerk and immediately command heel and forge ahead.

An alternate method,and one I've had huge success with, is to step on the back paw (gently) when the do sits, and command "no, heel", immediately taking the dog to heel. This introduces discomfort to the sit command and usually in 2-3 days, they'll stop sitting.

If I get a dog that really battles me, I'll teach it "sit" and "up", stepping on the back paw on the up command. Sometimes teaching the dog to both sit and stand up simplifies the commands for the animal and he understands what he is doing wrong and what you're unhappy with.

As the othe poster said, time, and patience.

[fishvik]

Something that worked with my GSP. If your dog will stop, for the whoa command and then sit. I found that putting an E collar around their flank and hitting them with the lowest setting will keep them from sitting. Reinforce with the command whoa and praise them if they don't move.

[vzkennels]

I agree with Gonehuntin I have had that type dog & is not a dog I want to deal with.They can be trained but why when you can have a dog that almost trains his self.I won't go into the breeding on the dog because last time it was brought up put some people up in arms.These dogs I had were hard headed but squawl like you were killing them with the slightest correction,they would run into you & knock you down,throw their head around & just beat you up,nothing I will ever have around here again it doesn't go with the breeding I do have & love.

[FarleysMaster]

I tried the advise of the first responder and it did work to a degree, but believe it or not he still sat sometimes, even when I didn't say anything! So I tried something else, and it seems to have worked...although I had to work as well, literally. I decided to take the dog for a jog and for some reason when we're running and I use the command whoa he doesnt sit, possibly because he's more excited, and seeing me stop along with him perhaps reinforces the idea that we are stopping in our tracks. Maybe when we're just walking around the yard he's kind of intimidated and...bored? I dont know, all I know is that the jogging seemed to be the cure.

So for those of you who are in relatively good shape, and your dog is sitting instead of whoaing, put your running shoes on!

[Sprig]

I have an English Setter in training, hasn't hunted yet, and lately he has begun sitting when I tell him to whoa. Then when I put him up on his four legs he tucks in his tail as if he's being punished. Anyone here ever have this problem, and if so, what did you do to solve it?

this is a common problem with timid dogs. try looping a leash around her belly so when she sits down you can calmy lift her up in the whoa position. over time with the leash around her belly she will realize you will pull her up so she will stop trying to sit down. it may take some time if the dog is real sensitive but it will work. i would like to emphasize the "calm" part as you dont want to add to the stress of the dog anymore that it is already going through. just calmy say "whoa" and lift her up and dont make a big deal over it. i have had to deal with this with several clients dogs and over time you can work through it with a leash and some patience.
good luck.

[hustonmc]

I tried the advise of the first responder and it did work to a degree, but believe it or not he still sat sometimes, even when I didn't say anything!

Remember the take is slow part. Your dog is not going to get the idea after 1 session..................The not saying anything isn't going to keep the dog from sitting, the immediately moving forward back into another command keeps the dog from sitting.

even when I didn't say anything!

Your not supposed to say anything until the dog is stopping, not sitting on his own, without a command. Why are you saying anything at all? You skipped ahead in the training yourself. You don't build a house by laying down shingles and putting stuff under them, you take steps, pour a foundation, build a floor, frame up walls, the trusses, etc.
The whole point of this "whoa and heel" is your NOT correcting the dog, your forming a habit. Dog's don't think, they react. They react to habits they have learned, good or bad. Your are instilling a habit of not sitting, not correcting him from sitting buy pulling on a cord or an e-collar or anything else. Your are laying the foundation so you can use other tools such as check cords and collars later on, again back to building a house. Back to repetition, repetition, repetition, this is a slow method, I imagine it took you some time to remember where all the keys were at on the keyboard. The method I told you will work, sure there are other ideas and methods that will work as well, but this WILL WORK. Remember your learning as well, have fun take your time, let things play out and don't get frustrated.

[snips]

I don't worry about it. Once he is confident with Whoa I think he will be easier to get standing. I agree with the rear collar, I would not say a word, just gently ease him standing and stroke him.

[kylenicholas02]

Three ways I corrected my GSP from sitting. 1) when you are doing yard work and working the whoa post, if she goes to sit, lift her several feet off the ground until she will stand when you put her back down. 2) when you work birds, use a launcher, if she goes to sit launch the birds.. and whoa her... Make her understand that by moving she will never get the birds. 3) just know your dog, make sure that the applied pressure isnt too much for the dog... You can also use a barrel to reinforce whoa.... Right now, the dog thinks that by sitting it escapes the pressure of whoaing.

[Jmackk]

Huh, I always tought my dogs to sit when I say whoa , but different breed and I hunt a little differently in AZ than most people.