Broke while hunting!

[R-Middleton]

How many of you guys keep your broke dog broke while wild bird hunting?

[topher40]

Ok I will bite, why wouldn't you? Whats the point of breaking a dog to just let them unbreak themselves during bird season. Personally I dont care for sloppy bird work.

[Windyhills]

Might have to start by defining "broke", but if you mean staying put at first scent and not moving until released, then there can be some very negative effects of requiring that on some wild bird species that like to run. Several times in recent years I have watched folks with very steady to first scent dogs pull their hair out hunting hard hunted, late season wild pheasant. Dog points, bird runs off, hunter can't find a bird, hunter releases dog, dog points, hunter can't find a bird....repeat this dozens of times for every bird you get a shot at and you'll soon see why some like to have dogs that will relocate and move on birds without being released.....

I would add that I find dogs that handle such bird very well a high % of the time to be the kind we ought to be promoting, and certainly not "sloppy".

[Rich Heaton]

Might have to start by defining "broke", but if you mean staying put at first scent and not moving until released

Where did you get that definition?

[slistoe]

The definition of broke is pretty well established, and as Rich has alluded, it doesn't apply to what you are describing.

And yes, I keep my broke dogs broke during hunting season. I owned broke dogs before I got into trialing - a hunter who dreamed of a classy, trained dog and most certainly not any of that trial stuff!!! How naive and wrong I was.

[Windyhills]

I can't agree that the definition is universal amongst HUNTERS. Field trialers, perhaps...

Just saw a similar discussion on another board that illustrated that, I believe. In any case, it seems like every year on every doggie-related BB folks who trial speak up about their desires to not want their dogs to move after establishing point and to a lesser extent--about limiting the retrieves their dogs get. Followed by hunters speaking up about how crazy that sounds to them and how allowing their dog to to move on it's own, to break at the shot or before it--and to retrieve EVERY time--is the only way to go.

Round and round they go....

[Rich Heaton]

To answer the question though,,,, yes we try to keep the dogs as broke as they ever are. To me its not really fair to them to let them forget all there manners then on Feb 1 shock the chit out of them for something you have let them do the past 4 months. Obviously winged birds or chasing down wounded birds is part of there job so we allow that. I personally think they know the difference between a shotgun and blank pistol.

[tommyboy72]

Try hunting blue quail with a "broke" dog. They are worse than pheasant by far. You would get very few birds with a dog who won't relocate on their own to keep up with a running or moving covey. Also it scares the helll out of me when a big rooster comes flushing up of the CRP under my feet, I would rather have my dogs hold a point till I get to them and then creep in for the flush and I don't mean run in full tilt and bust the bird out I just mean creep in there slowly and flush the bird which my dogs are pretty good at.

[romeo212000]

Yes you may put a few less birds in the bag when you require your dog to be fully broke while wild bird hunting, but the quality of work you get out of the birds you do get far outweighs a lighter game bag. It all depends on what your goals are while wild bird hunting. Mine is to put a few birds in the bag and have nice work on them. Others want to fill their bag every time. Mine is to give my young dogs good experience they can take with them when they start competing. If I don't expect them to be broke while hunting they will take that experience with them when they start competing.

[tommyboy72]

I don't compete, yet, but I darn sure don't walk 2 miles through yucca, prickly pear, cactus, knee aching and foot hurting crp and sand burrs to not shoot a bird my dog pointed and held till I got there just because he or she relocated on a moving bird or decided to flush a bird for me. I don't always fill my game bag and don't expect too but I have a freezer full of pheasant right now and it was never empty all bird season. It sounds to me like you guys do a lot of walking for nothing. I will occasionally pass on a shot on a bird my dogs bumped because of the dry weather or the heat but usually I will go ahead and shoot the bird. And you know what? My dogs still retrieve the downed bird to me and they somehow remember to point the birds that come after that. Some of you guys are so anal. But they are your dogs and you can hunt anyway you want. Now don't go thinking I am one of those people who shoots birds on the ground or blasts away at anything and everything because that I am not. I hate people like that and have hunted with people like that-once- I will not do it again. I am all about fair chase I just am a little less dictatorial when it comes to my dogs but like I said I don't compete.

[slistoe]

Fully broke means the dog will be steady (till sent for the retrieve or to cast on) and will honor (both other dogs and flighted birds). It does not mean the dog is not allowed to relocate. There is no penalty in a trial for a dog which relocates on a moving bird before the arrival of the handler to control the situation. There are people who think that the risk of a relocation effort in a trial (bumped birds) is not worth the reward (another find) and so will train to that end, but it has nothing to do with the term "broke dog".

[slistoe]

Yes you may put a few less birds in the bag when you require your dog to be fully broke while wild bird hunting, but the quality of work you get out of the birds you do get far outweighs a lighter game bag. It all depends on what your goals are while wild bird hunting. Mine is to put a few birds in the bag and have nice work on them. Others want to fill their bag every time. Mine is to give my young dogs good experience they can take with them when they start competing. If I don't expect them to be broke while hunting they will take that experience with them when they start competing.

This bold part I just don't get. If I go to the field with a broke dog how is it that I will be putting less birds in the bag? They will find and point just as many birds as if they were not broke, and I actually expect my shooting percentage to be as good, but likely a little higher. It's not like I am passing up birds at every other opportunity of having to constantly correct the dog. If the dog is needed constant reminders then I really don't have a broke dog, but rather a work in progress.

How is it that a broke dog puts less birds in your bag?

[tommyboy72]

Oh, my dogs will honor each other and other dogs but break on flighted birds which doesn't bother me. I hunt heavy cover and prefer not to lose or have to search for downed birds when the dogs are right on a downed bird. Just my personal preference. If I do get time and choose to compete it will be in timed walking trials similar to BDC events so there is no penalty for that and it seems to be a benefit in those style of events. Dogs breaking and being on a downed bird when it hits the ground means faster times. Faster times mean more wins.

[gonehuntin']

I hunt alone 99% of the time. Keeping a dog "broke" when hunting alone is very hard. It's tough to watch the bird, the dog, hold the transmitter and swing the gun at the same time. Going into the season the dogs are rock solid. Especially with pheasant, they tend to come slightly "loose" as the season progresses. What I mean by this is that on the shot, they may go for the retrieve.

I will NOT allow their staunchness on point to slip or their retriever training. The fact that they're steady through fall is not very important to me, as a hunter.

Now that I no longer trial any breed of dog, I get a great deal of enjoyment out of the hunt and the dog. I don't want to be always training. Did that for enough years.

[Rich Heaton]

How is it that a broke dog puts less birds in your bag

Tommy,,, if ya don't know then its a sign you don't require your dogs to stay broke. There would be a number of reason why you might not even get a shot off because you didn't think the dog work was good enough by whatever standard you use,,, so hints less birds in the bag,,,, my number one reason or atleast best excuse is,,, its tough to be concentrating on hitting anything when you have one eye on the bird and the other on the dog, one finger on the trigger one on the transmitter,,, when your out there hunting and trying to keep your dog broke,,, IMO your shooting/hitting percentage goes way down. Hints less birds in the bag.

I'm not saying its not a blast to take the meat dogs out and let them point then creep 10 ft in front of ya, put up the birds, chase down and retrieve every bird knocked down,,,,, its just not what the original post was about.

[DGFavor]

I'm not saying its not a blast to take the meat dogs out and let them point then creep 10 ft in front of ya, put up the birds, chase down and retrieve every bird knocked down,,,,,

I knew you invited me huntin' for a reason! Of course, mine don't really have "for real" points, they just steal 'em from yours when we find 'em standin'...but I'm OK with that.

[Scott Linden]

Oh, THAT kind of broke. I thought this post was about our financial situation due to birds, dogs, guns and dog food.

[thunderhead]

I expect consistency in the dog's performance. It does not matter if it is in the training field, FT HT or the wild bird fields when out hunting. If the dog is broke, then I keep them at that level even when hunting. There will be times when to dog makes a mistake and that is the time when you will have to give the propper correction. Dogs will regress as far as you allow them to. If I am hunting with a person who does not have broke dogs then I will not hunt the boke dogs with them. I would try to keep dogs that are at the same level together.