Training whoa

MTO4Life · Post by **MTO4Life** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:03 pm

Question here. I've been working with my pup (about 1 year old) on whoa. He had a bit of whoa work before I got him (whoa post and rope on flank). He really was doing well with that, so I put the ecollar on him without it on for 4 days or so to get him used to that, and with the rope. He's smart enough to not walk to the end of the rope as he would know what is going to happen, and he doesn't move. I figured we could move to stimulation with the rope, and he got that. We moved to the collar only and let him move out farther. The problem is, with the collar around his flank, he doesn't want to walk very far without stopping (I'm assuming since it feels like the rope on the flank). I figured he needed more time on the post, but with the rope, he stops before it becomes tight (he knows the drill).

SO, I've continued to work with only the ecollar and try to get him to move and run, but he won't.

What can I do to continue working on whoa? He won't whoa with just the command yet (which is fine.. this is why I'm working with him). Any suggestions? Should I go back to the beginning? If I do, I know he's not going to get to the end of the rope before he stops. Thanks in advance for any advice...

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:38 pm

He will not Whoa with the command at this point? I would drop the Ecollar, put a loose dog collar on his flank, lead on neck , say Whoa, if he moves set him back. Who needs an E, a post, a pully, a plank, a barrel, and all the other stuff... Just set him back if he moves foreward. Release him and praise, let him feel free to run around a couple of minutes, and Whoa him again. Keep him happy, but he must comply, then happy again. No need to be real stressed out over it.

MTO4Life · Post by **MTO4Life** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:33 pm

Thanks Brenda.... really dumb question here, but with the collar on the flank, am I attaching that to another lead, or just using it as a handle to move him back to the 'whoa' position? Again, thanks for the input.

snips · Post by **snips** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:42 am

It is just a handle. I attach lead to neck, give them a pull back while walking in front back and forth til they understand. Then tug back and start giving slack to lead while moving in front. Rear collar is only for setting back.

kylenicholas02 · Post by **kylenicholas02** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:34 pm

Another thing, I moved away from the collar on the flank to a short rope I loop with a knot slightly loose around the flank, and then run to the front collar. This gives you the ability to pick the dog up and set it back without handling it, plus you still have the flank stimulation. It also works wonders for steadying the dog to wing and shot etc. Just once it goes on point, stake the dog and flush the bird. If it jumps it gets the stimulation.

Sprig · Post by **Sprig** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:27 pm

why do you have the collar on the dog's flank?

I treat whoa like stay. whoa-ing a pointer is just like teaching a lab to be steady on a retrieve. its all about stay....if he breaks, nick him and immediately put him back where he was and keep telling whoa and keep petting him and adjusting him if neccessary. This does require a couple of weeks of just a leash and a ton of practice with showing him what whoa means before the e-collar pressure comes. he also needs to be e-collar conditioned but sounds like your dog is already past these points so I would put him on a short leash, for control, and start nicking him the second he breaks and immediately put him back and "whoa", just like you would if you were teaching a lab to stay. I am doing this with 3 GSP's and there really is no need for a whoa board, garbage can or table.....its no different than teaching stay because essentially that is exactly what whoa is, a stay command but out in front of you. it means stop and stay..

kylenicholas02 · Post by **kylenicholas02** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:14 pm

Spig-
The collar on the flank is a different stimulation point. My belief along with countless others is that by utilizing the flank collar to whoa break the dog you lessen the chance to take away from the dogs intensity, once the dog is in the field. Yes when I first introduce birds alot of times I will have the collar on the flank and neck both to make sure I have control of the dog. Once you establish this, I remove it and place the cord as described above. This enables steady to wing/shot etc, plus having control of a young dog... try it... Most who do, never go back

Saltriver · Post by **Saltriver** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:13 am

I know that the collar on the flank is a popular method and if it is working for you by all means keep with it. I do not use it though since i don't plan to run a dog with the collar on the flank that is one more step that the dog has to go through when you transfer to just the dollar on the neck. I like to teach them whoa from heel, introduce the collar and progress to running free after they 1. learn the command and 2. understand what the collar means. don't change direction or methods if it is working, just my $.02.

Justin

Sprig · Post by **Sprig** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:34 pm

I am not opposed to it and if it is working for ya, keep doing it. I have had great success just using it on the neck but that has alot to do with the entire program the dog gets here. there are many ways to train a dog. the problem people run into is when they take bits and pieces from another program without laying the important groundwork that is a part of those programs, especially with FF and CC.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:55 am

snips wrote:He will not Whoa with the command at this point? I would drop the Ecollar, put a loose dog collar on his flank, lead on neck , say Whoa, if he moves set him back. Who needs an E, a post, a pully, a plank, a barrel, and all the other stuff... Just set him back if he moves foreward. Release him and praise, let him feel free to run around a couple of minutes, and Whoa him again. Keep him happy, but he must comply, then happy again. No need to be real stressed out over it.

Finally, a pro who uses a similar method I have always used. I have never used a barrel, table or whoa post. Just a leash and repetitions of heeling and whoaing. It doesn't take long for them to catch on to that and then walking out to the side of them, behind them, in front of them etc., setting them back every time they move and finally whoaing while they are running. Once they whoa consistantly, I will start distracting them, such as kicking around in front of them, picking things up in front of them and soforth until they are solid. I always here about using a table, barrel, post and such and thought maybe I was missing something. Maybe it is faster, I don't know. It just seems to me that people make it more complicated than it needs to be. JMO

Charlie

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