Trying to get 7 month old Pudelpointer ready for NA test

[gdog]

Well...I'm a month out for my NAVHDA NA test for my 7 month old Pudelpointer and I'm having a few problems.

The dog is bird crazy..no problem with drive. No problem with water entry.

My issue is pointing birds. I'm using launchers with pigeons and cc her into the birds. She is a bouncing ball at the end of the cc and trying to figure out exactly when she is scenting bird has been a challenge. She is not holding and is all about the chase. If I hold her up to stand the bird with the cc....she flags.

I know she is young and I'm not expecting her to be steady by any means....but I need to get her pointing the birds for the test.

Should I stop the chase? I read.."they'll learn that they can't catch the bird and will stop chasing"...well thats not happening nor is she slowing down on the chase. I can call her back, but she wants to bust birds. I've had her on birds maybe twice a week at most for the last couple weeks. Two weeks ago, we went and helped our DWR in Sage Grouse counts and she got on a ton of wild birds. No pointing ....all chasing.

I'm probably not going to put any birds down for her for at least a week, but with the test coming up..not sure how to approach.

I am not whoa'ing her or any other verbal commands when on point.

[Ruffshooter]

gdog:
Are you saying she is pointing, just not steady? How long is her point? She need not be steady or as you say (standing her birds) she only needs to establish a point, I forget how long they need to be established, (I think it is around 3 seconds) Rememeber this is pointing not steadiness.

Also, once you have her properly introduced to all the stuff and she seems comfortable, I personally take them off the birds for the last two weeks, except maybe a track or two.

When using the launcher: 1: always make sure you have great flying birds. 2: Bring the dog in cross wind not down wind. 3: When you bring her in cross wind make sure you are only around 10 yards away from the launcher (this way you know she is smelling the bird). 4: watch her she will start to turn or speed up or point ( when she points watch her if she even flinches pop the bird), right at any one of these pop the bird.
5: some times when right at the popping of the bird a quick jerk on the check cord will break the imediate response to chase.

6: If at all possible take your dog to the wild bird woods or field and let her have at it. She will begin pointing if she is not now.
Good luck

[gdog]

She is not pointing....just wanting to bust.

[gonehuntin']

Pudelpointers, like Draht's, have a lot of drive. I'd get a little tough with her. Bring her into the bird on a cc, and when she hits the scent cone, spins, and roads in, yell WHOA, grab her, pick her up, and roughly set her back.

She's still young so that's ALL the pressure I'd use at this age. Try that and see what happens.

[birddogger]

I would continue working her on birds and wait a few months before I tested her. Ofcourse, if you do test her and she doesn't do well, you still have time to test her again in the NA.

Charlie

[gdog]

Well... My $100 is in for the test which I can't get back probably.... And I know she can do it. It's the trainer not the dog. I worked on tracking today later and she did great... Just have to get her to hold her points at least fora moment.

[cody]

You might see if you can transfer your $100 payment to a spring test. Give her a hunting season for to figure it out, if she doesn't, you have the rest of winter to work on her. It might be a easier once she is a little older and has more experience. JMHO

[ACooper]

Using your launchers bring the dog in across the wind about 10 yards or so down wind, as soon as she hits the scent pop the bird, do this until she starts locking up when she hits the scent. This method works for me.

[snips]

Using your launchers bring the dog in across the wind about 10 yards or so down wind, as soon as she hits the scent pop the bird, do this until she starts locking up when she hits the scent. This method works for me.

Agree, and after the bird pops, stop her. No chase. She is busting for the love of the chase.

[BDBUzi]

You might see if you can transfer your $100 payment to a spring test. Give her a hunting season for to figure it out, if she doesn't, you have the rest of winter to work on her. It might be a easier once she is a little older and has more experience. JMHO

This may be a good idea if she's not holding point yet. My pups breeder warned me that he should be pointing enough for the judges to see at least 45 days prior to test day. I really wish I would've taken his advise more seriously because after catching a few of the chukars on test day, and a few screw ups with pigeons in training, we're still having some trouble getting the breaking process completed. But there's no shortage of prey drive...

If it were me, I'd take gone's advice and put a little pressure on her (if you think she's bold enough to handle it) or simply let her run wild this season and then whoa break her and steady her up in time for the spring test. Had I done that correctly, we would have seen my pup ace this past spring test...

We'll be back for UT in a year or two.

[cody]

I just had made a few mistakes while trying to rush to prepare for a NA test, of course I did not have launchers and think they can help a great deal. Will you be testing in Utah or Idaho? Let us know how it goes.

[fritzer]

Gdog,

You have a 7 month old pup with high prey drive. IMO you need to let the light turn on when
the pup is ready to turn it on. I'd be very careful to not put much pressure on your pup as that's an easy way to make a blinker. I've been there and done that. It wasn't an easy fix.

[zzweims]

Does she point wild or liberated birds? Have you ever had her out on birds with no launcher and no check chord?

Aline
http://zzfarms.com

[gdog]

Appreciate the feedback. I know I can always bail on the test and try again in the spring, but I would prefer to try and complete the fall test. I have a few weeks and am going to see how it goes the next week or two. I am not expecting miracles....and am not going to put the screws to the pup in any manner. If it doesn't work out...then I'll push to spring.

We were on wild birds 2 weeks back. Sage grouse...lots of them, but they were not holding. Only saw a few points from seasoned dogs.

Yesterday I put some pheasant sent on a sage grouse wing (from last season) and dragged it with a long pole across about 20yrs of ground and then put the wing in some vegetation. Brought her to the start of the trail and she worked right up the scent trail and got right up to the wing and locked up....no flagging...for about 10 sec. It wasn't site pointing cuz the wing was buried in the shrubs.

[wems2371]

Seasoned people can tell me if this makes any difference, but if she's done some tracks and is doing a decent job, I would quit with that. My older gsp has always been good at tracks, and that means during training, when we're planting birds as well for pointing drills. She doesn't bust birds, but we had to get particular about planting, so that she doesn't track past first scent and get closer than need be. I don't consider them one in the same, and don't expect a point at the end of the track. I am thinking maybe though, that allowing a pup to do a lot of tracking, could lead to the pup tracking up to birds (beyond first scent), instead of pointing. Are you using planted birds and a checkcord? Don't know if it was mentioned or not, but don't bring the pup in downwind, or she'll be catching a long drift of scent. Make sure to go across the scent cone. I was reminded of that just yesterday, when watching PS/PF. I'm sure your local wild birds will teach her, when she's ready though.

These are just some thoughts from a newbie. Sounds like a plan, to not push her, but take the test as a practice run--if nothing else.

[gdog]

Very limited tracking drills...maybe 3 different occasions. I was not planning on doing anything else with tracking until a week before the test and let her track one pheasant for a refresher.

[BDBUzi]

... but take the test as a practice run--if nothing else.

I think this is where I made my biggest mistake...
Being new to NAVHDA, I thought it'd be good for us to have a practice run at the test.

But I think that having him catch birds during that test set us back a ways.
If I had it to do over again, I would have taken the breeders advice and pulled my pup from the test. JMHO

Another poster asked if your pup has pointed birds without a launcher, off the check cord. If she hasn't yet, and doesn't do it prior to the test, how can you expect her to do it when the judges are watching?

[gdog]

Jeff...I hear what your saying...but do you really think it was only the fall test that messed with your dog so much that he didn't stand birds for the following spring test? Lots of time/months between to get that dog to forget about 4 birds and get him pointing(?)

[BDBUzi]

Jeff...I hear what your saying...but do you really think it was only the fall test that messed with your dog so much that he didn't stand birds for the following spring test? Lots of time/months between to get that dog to forget about 4 birds and get him pointing(?)

Absolutely not.
I mentioned that I made some newby mistakes in training.

My point was that I've been in the same place you're at now (twice within the past year). And in hindsight, I knew "bleep" well that he'd probably bust in and if the birds were less than excellent flyers, we'd have a train wreck. The second of which you probably captured in high res...

I must say that I ran my pup at 6.5 months for my purposes and I didn't do him any favors by acting in my own self interest.
It set our training back, and it made things harder on both of us now that I'm trying to get him broke WSF (especially since we've opted to give this one a go sans e-collar). FWIW, I would love to see your pup nail the NA test with a 112. .