Train Help-1st exposure to planted birds revealed problems

[Baldwin Eagles]

Hey all,

I've owned my ESS for about 5 months now,he is one year old. I just exposed him to his 1st planted birds through a local hunt club, and it did not go as well as I hoped. It only highlighted some of the bad habits I have allowed my pup to acquire as a result of not really knowing what I am doing. I should mention he is my 1st dog and I am totally new to this.

While I can say I am totally stoked that he is not gun shy and had a blast flushing birds, although his lack of obedience was obvious. After joining a local hunt club I was fortunate enough to get him exposed to birds, and it went well. But I was also exposed to other well trained dogs, as well as some other training methods I was totally oblivious to.

He doesn't stay close enough and won't come. When I would walk the fields with him prior to being exposed to birds, he never got that far away. But know that he has been exposed, he gets too far away out of gun range, and won't come when called.

Additionally, when training, he won't retrieve anything other than tennis balls. Unfortunately, when we planted some pigeons for him, he will flush and find, but only brings it back halfway. His retrieve isn't all that great either.

I made the mistake of only using tennis balls to train retrieve. I never in a million years would have thought this might be detrimental to his development as a hunter, but it looks like it might be. I can hide a tennis ball in the deepest of cover, and he will find it, and bring it right back to me. Anything else, nothing.

I got a check cord to work on come, stay, hup and release. But the only thing he will react to is a tennis ball, and I am worried I will be reinforcing his only desire to fetch a tennis ball. With check cord attached I would throw a dummy about 20 feet away, and he just sits there.

Any advice on how to proceed? I would like to work on his quartering someday, and I don't really want to use a e collar as he is sort of a soft dog. He learns things real fast, he is just being stubborn as I have ramped up what is expected after joining the club and seeing what is possible.

In summary, I need some basic techniques to work on retrieve and come. He knows hup and stay, plus I am trying to teach fetch (to pick something up) and give as he basically drops the tennis ball about five feet away from me. I guess that wouldn't be all bad in the field provided he retrieves.

Thanks.

[Sharon]

Seems you are asking two basic question: what to do about obedience problems and what to do about retrieving problems with a one year old dog.

Do condition the dog to the e-collar. Some pros don't even believe in a soft dog. They think the dog has learned some "soft" behaviours to avoid complying. When you say the dog is 'stubborn" that is not soft.
What the dog won't do in a confined area( back yard, training yard etc.), he won't do in the field. Start collar conditioning in the yard. Follow the manual or get a good DVD ( Mike Lardy). Once the dog is collar conditioned, quartering can be easily taught although there's lots you could be doing now with just a CC

Sounds like you have gotten away ahead of yourself. Shooting over a non- compliant dog is the cart before the horse.
Did you gun condition the dog or just shoot the gun and got lucky?

We all started with our first dog and made lots of mistakes. Just learn and enjoy your dog.
I'll let others talk about retrieving.
Welcome to the forum.

[birddogger]

Seems you are asking two basic question: what to do about obedience problems and what to do about retrieving problems.

Do condition the dog to the e-collar. Some pros don't even believe in a soft dog. They think the dog has learned some "soft" behaviours to avoid complying. When you say the dog is 'stubborn" that is not soft.
What the dog won't do in a confined area( back yard, training yard etc.), he won't do in the field. Start collar conditioning in the yard. Follow the manual or get a good DVD ( Mike Lardy). Once the dog is collar conditioned, quartering can be easily taught although there's lots you could be doing now with just a CC

Sounds like you have gotten away ahead of yourself. Shooting over a non- compliant dog is the cart before the horse.
Did you gun condition the dog or just shoot the gun and got lucky?

We all started with our first dog and made lots of mistakes. Just learn and enjoy your dog.
I'll let others talk about retrieving.
Welcome to the forum.

Good post Sharon!

Also, I just keep saying this to people new to gun dogs, but your pup is just a baby. His attention span is probably pretty close to zero. Just be patient and take it slow. It just seems to me that you may be expecting too much too soon. You have done a good thing in finding a club to join and hopefully there will be experienced people there to help. As far as the retrieving, he may or may not be a natural retriever. IMO, you are not doing anything wrong by using the tennis ball. Again, he is a baby and he has his favorite toy. As Sharon said, condition him to the e-collar and learn to use it properly. It is the most valuable training tool I have ever had. There is absolutely nothing inhumane about it, when used correctly.
Good Luck and welcome!
Charlie

[gonehuntin']

I don't consider a 12 month old spaniel a baby. I'd obedience train and force break him NOW. It's time. Buy a good training program like Evan Grahams or Fowl Dawgs and follow it step by step. Spaniels and retrievers train virtually indentically.

[birddogger]

I don't consider a 12 month old spaniel a baby. I'd obedience train and force break him NOW. It's time. Buy a good training program like Evan Grahams or Fowl Dawgs and follow it step by step. Spaniels and retrievers train virtually indentically.

Sorry, I didn't read it close enough. He said he has owned the dog for 5 months, not that the dog is 5 mos. old. I have to stop doing that!

Charlie

[Baldwin Eagles]

Thanks for the replies.

I did not fire over him until he was ready. Before exposing to birds and real gun fire, I used tennis balls/dead birds and a training pistol. After a few months with the training pistol, I moved too a shotgun about 20 yards away while playing fetch with his favorite tennis ball. After seeing absolutely no reaction to the gunfire at about twenty yards, we moved closer. After that, we tried a planted homing pigeon with shotgun. After that went really well, we tried a planted pheasant with live ammunition.

Everything went fine.

I basically have an obedience issue that needs to be worked on. I am thinking I will try the e-collar.

Thanks for all the help folks.

[Saltriver]

dont just use an e-collar to "teach" him obedience. an e-collar is a wonderful tool for enfocement if done correctly but should not be used until the dog knows the commands and then just still be used correctly oryou may teach the dog things that you don't want it to know!

justin