supplaments?

[Hattrick]

Alright not sure were to post this one? My question is do you guys use supplements for ur dogs on big training days or long hunts to help keep up there energy? I see my female tires when quicker than her litter mate brother does when training, i`m guessing this be true when hunting as well.

[ezzy333]

No, I don't. Have never found a need for them when feeding a good dogfood.

Ezzy

[Wlfdg]

I see my female tires when quicker than her litter mate brother does when training, i`m guessing this be true when hunting as well.

Is she a good eater? Is she getting enough calories? Have you tried giving here some extra fat in her food or a bit of tallow before training?

[ezzy333]

Stamina has a lot more to do with conditioning than what they are eating. Females as a general rule may tire more quickly if you don't have a conditioning program that you use. Malesw are normally bigger and stronger and without some conditioning may not tire as quickly.

Ezzy

[Wlfdg]

Stamina has a lot more to do with conditioning than what they are eating. Ezzy

Of course if there isn't enough fuel in the tank the engine won't keep running. Or an inefficient fuel source, like say carbohydrates instead of fat, the get and go will got up and went.

[ezzy333]

Stamina has a lot more to do with conditioning than what they are eating. Ezzy

Of course if there isn't enough fuel in the tank the engine won't keep running. Or an inefficient fuel source, like say carbohydrates instead of fat, the get and go will got up and went.

The fuel in the engine is what puts the fat and muscle on the dog that it uses for energy. But one of the most important sources of quick energy is the carbs that are fed just prior to the heavy exercise. But the lasting power comes from the stored energy that is the result of the long range feeding program. This is one of the reasons a dog gets by very well without being fed the day of the workout.

Of course there is an advantage in feeding a good quality feed but there is somewhat of a step inbetween what the dog is eating and the energy that it takes to perform. And that is where stored nutrients and the physical conditioning comes into play.

Dogs survived and performed quite well long before we ever started feeding them.

Ezzy

[Hattrick]

So i`m taking it as a no for extra supplements? Athletes use Gatorade for dehydration an other things like protein prior an right after workouts for an quick energy an recovery when playing an training. Just wondering

[Wlfdg]

O.K. So as a dog goes through their energy process there is glycogenic phase (first 2-3min of activity) and the oxygenic phase (after 3min.). What you are saying is triglyserides are a better energy source than dietary fat? and that they catabolize muscle for energy and that is also more efficient than dietary fat?

Yes, dogs did well before we fed them. They fed themselves, primarily fat from organs.

I do understand conditioning, I am a professional endurance athlete and a trainer/coach.

[nitrex]

I highly recommend the following products. I have twice the dog after 3-4 days of hard hunting. I would encourage you to call them. The developer of the products will talk to you and answer your questions. He is an honest guy and will not sell you something you really don't need. I currently use the "R" and the "H."

http://www.elements4dogs.com/

Nitrex

[mcbosco]

If you feel you have to supplement, a rich food-based supplement with high protein and high fat with low or no carbs is the way to go, assuming your pup is in good shape.

Annamaet Impact is as good a training supplement as is available I believe. Robert Downey has a tons of experience with hard working dogs and is a real expert. He was at U Penn for many years and is a musher himself.

http://www.annamaet.com/dogs/impact.html

You can use that or just feed some organ or fatty fresh meat or fish when you train. You could do a lot worse than a few canned sardines in water or olive oil for the pup each day.

[ezzy333]

If you feel you have to supplement, a rich food-based supplement with high protein and high fat with low or no carbs is the way to go, assuming your pup is in good shape.

Annamaet Impact is as good a training supplement as is available I believe. Robert Downey has a tons of experience with hard working dogs and is a real expert. He was at U Penn for many years and is a musher himself.

http://www.annamaet.com/dogs/impact.html

You can use that or just feed some organ or fatty fresh meat or fish when you train. You could do a lot worse than a few canned sardines in water or olive oil for the pup each day.

This is a probiotic supplement and has little to do with adding energy of any consequence. They recommend 2 ounces for a 50 lb dog. That means you are getting .8 ounces of protein and .6 ounces of fat added to the diet and most of the other stuff is the same as in the feed ou are feeding if you are on a quality kibble.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

wrong Ezzy, that 2 ounces by weight has about 300 calories, or about 675 calories if you wanna compare the product to a cup by volume of kibble, and no calories from carbs, just protein, fats, pros & vitamins.

respectfully

[ezzy333]

wrong Ezzy, that 2 ounces by weight has about 300 calories, or about 675 calories if you wanna compare the product to a cup by volume of kibble, and no calories from carbs, just protein, fats, pros & vitamins.

respectfully

Tell me about the no carb flax. And comparing it to a cup of dogfood has nothing to do with feeding it as a supplement as recommended. I did not indicate it was a bad product or that the quality was bad in any way. I did try to point out if fed as recommended it provides so little in added fat or protien that it would basically be unnoticeable on your dog. My 30 pounders get about 1/4 ounce of fat and protien from it. Not really a big deal.

It won't do any harm so have at it but it does practically nothing except add some bacteria to the gut. And that should be ok. But I am sure if a dog has been sick and needs added bacteria it will work though there are cheaper ways to do it. I am just trying to point out what a supplement really does compared to the marketing hype. They should work if you need them which is rare but they do not supply a noticeable amount of energy producing ingredients to the diet if that is what you are wanting.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

i think you should read my post I said "if you feel you need to...."

I dont think that kind of calorie boost is inconsequential by the way, and also flax is very low in carbs, being mostly fat and fiber....75% of flax calories are from fat.

that product is one way to boost ordinary kibble

[ezzy333]

i think you should read my post I said "if you feel you need to...."

I dont think that kind of calorie boost is inconsequential by the way, and also flax is very low in carbs, being mostly fat and fiber....75% of flax calories are from fat.

that product is one way to boost ordinary kibble

My post wasn't directed at you but was info everyone should know before jumping in with both feet.

However, I did make the comment about flax that did ask about a grain that is all fat(?) and fiber. This is the same grain that we use a lot of in the cattle feeds and it sure isn't fat. Linseed meal is used as a protien source after we take the linseed oil out of it.The good thing abut linseed is it carries the omega fat complexes at a greater level than most grains. And granted it can't compare to corn or wheat as a carb source,it is fairly close to barley, oats, and some other small grains.

But there really is no need to judge it as a carb source because of the extremely small amount in the dogs daily intake when you are feeding less than an tenth of an ounce of ot per day. Like I said if you follow the feeding directions for a supplement you are feeding miniscule amounts of any one ingredient. And that will work many times for probiotics but not as a general additive of major nutrition. And it has been proved everytime it has been tested that you get better results when something is included in the feed itself than you do by trying to supplement it as an additive. Thats why most quality feeds supply these additived in there food. It just works better.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

i still haven't found a more convenient boost to a dog than canned sardines...their eyes light up when they get a whiff....the portuguese varieties are fairly cheap...just stick em the pack and your off...

[Hattrick]

That`s for the info guys! Sorry it took me so long to get back ,was having problems getting login on..ok now