Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

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xNF
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Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by xNF » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:48 am

I Have owned an ESS my whole life. I don't know much about pointers and the way they should be taught. From what I've read there is not a exact way to train them. I am just looking for the major things that can ruin a pointing dog. For example I don't know what the whoa command is, but have seen it many times on this site. Is there a website or something that better explains these commands and habits of these dogs?

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Sharon
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by Sharon » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:53 am

Sounds like you need some good resources.

oldie but a goodie.....Point! by Horace Lyttle ( Amazon)


"The German Shorthaired Pointer - A Hunter's Guide to the Selection, Care. Training and Handling of................................Written by David Gowdey ( Wide Sky Press)
Last edited by Sharon on Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by windswept » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:55 am

Buy Perfect Start/ Perfect Finish DVD set. They often are available used on this board.

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by slistoe » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:23 am

Sharon wrote:
"The German Shorthaired Pointer - A Hunter's Guide to the Selection, Care. Training and Handling of................................Written by David Gowdey ( Wide Sky Press)
Interesting. Do you actually own this book? If nothing else, I will have to give kudos to one internet 'spert who got off his duff and wrote the book.

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Sharon
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by Sharon » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:34 am

"Do I actually own this book?" quote Yes I do! I've been able to read for some 60 years now. :D

Excellent book!! I left off the rest of the title so as not to divert the thread.... "and Handling of America's Most Popular Pointing Dog" :D The author has been HUNTING Shorthairs for 40 years. The book was just published 7 months ago. I've had 2 shorthairs but prefer my setters now.


http://www.amazon.com/German-Shorthaire ... 0982233000
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by bobman » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:46 am

Gowdeys alright for a Bed wetter ( I hope he reads this :wink: ) he has his method and I agree with a lot of it and like him.


Dont take his comments about field trial dogs too serious though, he would rather hunt over a poodle then a FT dog ha ha.



re pointers
one thing you must never ever do is teach them to sit once they start that you might as well shoot em.....known fact "carved in stone" yada yada
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by slistoe » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:54 am

Sharon wrote: Yes I do! I've been able to read for some 60 years now. :D

Excellent book!! I left off the rest of the title so as not to divert the thread.... "and Handling of America's Most Popular Pointing Dog" :D The author has been HUNTING Shorthairs for 40 years. The book was just published 7 months ago. I've had 2 shorthairs but prefer my setters now.


http://www.amazon.com/German-Shorthaire ... 0982233000
You must have learned to read at a VERY young age :)

Gowdey just did not seem to be your type of author - unless his book differs greatly from his internet rantings of years ago.

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Sharon
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by Sharon » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:11 am

Well, I know he's not into field trials, but I like to read all kinds of books with all kinds of perspectives. I think there's something to be learned from everyone - well almost everyone . I've even learned a few things from you. :mrgreen:
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by Herry » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:26 am

bobman wrote:

re pointers
one thing you must never ever do is teach them to sit once they start that you might as well shoot em.....known fact "carved in stone" yada yada

Dumb question here: is that a serious post or are you joking around? I have a new GSP who's 13 weeks old. I really shouldn't teach him to sit?

I've never trained a dog before so I appreciate the info.

Thanks.

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by Sharon » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:31 am

A lot say you shouldn't . Bobman knows what he is talking about. However, my dogs live in the house. They need to sit occasionally so I teach it. I've never seen this affect their performance in the field. Some say they will revert to sitting when confused on point, but I've never seen it.
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by bobbaganoosh » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 pm

One piece of advice I would give is to not expose the dog to a gun until he is ready. Go slow with gun introduction. It will ensure that it is done properly and will reduce the chance of gunshyness.

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by bobman » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:21 pm

Herry wrote:
bobman wrote:

re pointers
one thing you must never ever do is teach them to sit once they start that you might as well shoot em.....known fact "carved in stone" yada yada

Dumb question here: is that a serious post or are you joking around? I have a new GSP who's 13 weeks old. I really shouldn't teach him to sit?

I've never trained a dog before so I appreciate the info.

Thanks.
Heck yes its a joke! but you will here it as if its the Word of God,

All my dogs sit on command if they know whats good for them. And none of them sit on point ever which is what training it supposedly causes
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:56 pm

xNF -

The ONE fundamental difference between a pointer and most other breeds, especially flushing breeds...is their genetic desire for independence and theri desire, again genetic, to see if there is a bird on the other side of the hill.

Pointers range out...it is in their blood. Whether or not they come back...is pretty much up to you.

I suggest that you spend the time to make very good friends with a new, young pointer pup. One thing I have found is that if a pointer likes you and wants to be with you, it will stay with you and hunt for you. If it don't...it won't.

They will keep track of you, believe it or not and even though they may run out of sight, they know where you are and will come back around to check up on you and make sure you are still heading toward them.

RayG

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Sharon
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by Sharon » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:13 pm

Ray - write a book! That is so well said.
"A pointer wants to know if there is a bird on the other side of the hill. They will keep track of you, believe it or not and even though they may run out of sight, they know where you are and will come back around to check up on you and make sure you are still heading toward them."

I know what they do but i could never say it in words. Well done!
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by slistoe » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm

RayGubernat wrote: and make sure you are still heading toward them.

RayG
Ray, given your background and mine in dogs bred through the field trial proving system where a front running dog is a "sine qua non" this is an easy statement to make, unfortunately there are lots of pointing dogs out there who do not follow the code.

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by Sharon » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:38 pm

Why do you feel there are so many pointing dogs that don't follow the "code" Slistoe?
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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by slistoe » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:43 pm

Poor breeding selection.

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by RayGubernat » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:35 pm

SL-

I think a good bit of it is genetics, but also think a good portion of the blame may very well be laid at the doorstep to the trainer/handler/hunter.

If one of my dogs goes behind, as a youngster, it gets encouraged to move forward. If it goes behind again after a series of encouragements and redirections, and I feel it should know what I want... it gets corrected. If it persists, I will walk away and leave it behind. Funny thing...when you walk away from them and don't look back...they get to hurrying up to catch the front.

I believe that many hunters "teach" their dogs to potter around, to go back by doing things like insisting that they hunt a particular cover or area or series of covers or areas thoroughly, when what they should be doing is walking briskly though the cover and thus encourabging the dog to get out there and hunt. If the hunter feels the cover or section needs another run through, insead of standing in the middle and "teaching" the dog to mill around, they would be better served by passing through teh cover, looping around and coming at it from a different direction.

I believe many hunters "teach" their dogs to yo- yo by calling them back because they are punching out too far for the hunter's comfort. Thye would be better served, I think, by teaching the dog to bend on command and encouraging the dog to work laterally when it approaches the outer edge of the hunter's comfort range.

You can blame the breeder and the breed, but we, the trainers, are part of the problem also, I think. Part of the solution too, hopefully.

RayG

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by slistoe » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:10 pm

When I first started I taught my dogs to hold the front. Then I realized that there were dogs that just do it. They don't need to be taught. I don't teach them to hold the front anymore. In the words of Big Tex, If they won't go with you ......
You have the luxury of working with a breed where the selection has been very strong for a long period of time. The odds are with you and the differences between the innate tendencies of the dogs is not so obvious. I feel I have had the luxury of seeing the effects of genetics and misguided training/handling/justification on the breeding selection.

I have said for many years on these boards that there is no greater gift to the hunter from the All Age Horseback Trialer than a front running dog.

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by Sharon » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:15 pm

Fascinating. Thanks.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by sjkennels » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:56 pm

a good dvd is george hickox first year
kick'em up knock'em down

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Re: Do's and Don'ts in training a pointer?

Post by balerseller » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:16 pm

Gentleman (Ray & Slistoe)
Please continue, you to have a good way of putting your ways and thoughts down.

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