is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

sjkennels · Post by **sjkennels** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:04 pm

the reason why i am asking. is i have this pup that i got from south wind. and i dont really wanna send it to a trainer. but i work 6 1/2 days a week from sun up to just about 20 min until dark each day. is that 20 min a day enough time to work with a pup each day. to train him my self? or at least until we get more day light. i have the George hickox dvd to watch and go from but i dont know if i have enough time to spend and train him it would save me a lot of money i think if i did it myself. and plus it would really be cool to say i trained this dog myself.

so a little about his training at this point

i have been working with my 7 month old gsp pup on come and in the yard he comes about 60 or 70 percent of the time with out correction with the cc on so i decided to take him out so friday afternoon i took him and let him run witch was the first time i let him out and run since i got him he had a cc on and i firgured he would range out a little maybe 50 or 60 yards so i put my garmin on him and did a little work with him and let him loose and he wouldnt stay any where close to me he would stay any where from 60 to 200 yards away from me is this normal for that young of a dog to run that far from me? with out ever being let loose like that before. but he did listen to me about 40 percent of the time when i told him to come so this leads to a question

can i or should i introduce the ecollar so i can control him better and when can i start to train him with the help of my dvd at this point like i said he is responding to come about 60 or 70 percent of the time he has pointed about 4 or 5 pigeons so far.

what are your thoughts and what should i do i would really like to actually train this dog from start to finish i am not in any hurry to hunt him or anything but i would like to see this dog through to become a guide dog for pheasant quail and dove and try and get him his jh and mh and sh

if any of this seems possible for me to do haha but we will see how it goes please let me know what your thoughts are your not going to hurt my feelings if i want to know your honest opinions. thanks for your time reading this and answering my questions

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:01 pm

7 months - 20 minutes a day ?????????? Not enough imo but better then nothing. When will he get his full out 30 - 60 minutes run at least every other day?

By the time you got the birds, set up a launcher or drove to the field for wild birds, 20 minutes would be long gone.
If you're talking about 20 minutes in the back yard working on "come", it would be enough.

I assume you didn't know you'd be working that much when you got the pup.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:12 pm

It is not about the quantity of time as it is the quality of the time spent

short simple sessions ending on good notes are better then grueling sessions which burn out a dog specially a young dog

sjkennels · Post by **sjkennels** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:26 pm

i knew i would be having to work with the dog. and i knew i would have limited time a day to work with him. but i work with him everyday when i get off for about ten minutes and let him run around the yard everyday after we get done with working on come. i am gonna talk to my buddy that owns a preserve and see if i can take the pup out and let him run and point and chase pheasants and chuckar around for a little bit this weekend maybe.

can i start introducing the ecollar so i can mix that in with the cc so when i do let him run i can correct him when he doesn't respond to come when he is running around?

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:37 pm

If you're sure he knows what "come" means then I think you can absolutely introduce the e-collar. for that purpose.Follow the directions for introducing the collar.

sjkennels · Post by **sjkennels** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:50 pm

in the yard he comes 6 or 7 times outta ten and when he is out running it goes to about 5 or 6 and is it normal for a pup this young to be running between 60 to 200 yards my other pup never did get out that far she still doesn't get out that far

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:14 pm

It can be very normal and welcome. Depends on the breeding.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:38 pm

If twenty mins is all you have then it is enough. That doesn't mean more wouldn't be better but we all do what we can and that has to be enough.

Ezzy

Calisdad · Post by **Calisdad** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:39 pm

Not really. I think you need to find more time. You are quickly going to miss a window where he is very impressionable and easier to train.

It sounds to me that you haven't established a bond with him and that's why he doesn't come as frequently as you would like or stay as near.

An e-collar is intended to inforce what you have already taught him, not make him do what he doesn't understand.

You've got your work cut out for you. Best of luck.

jimalbert · Post by **jimalbert** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:22 am

I can only tell you what I did with my dog, and honestly I dont know alot. My 6mo GSP is very obedient. When we first got her I took her to a puppy kindergarten class run by a guy that trains police dogs. Built her on the fundamentals he taught us. I saw a yellow lab that was the most horrific dog go from worst to probably best in that class, and he behaved better than my GSP. I myself was worried about the bird stuff because I didnt do anything more with her than a wing on a string. I thought to myself, If she isnt going to listen to what I say, no matter how good she is with birds, I dont want to have to worry about her chasing something and not listening to my commands. So obedience was my first objective along with the wing on a string. Face it a 6 mo old pup still has alot of puppy in it, and if she listens to what you say 60-70% of the time and you keep working with her on it... when the puppy is gone and the dog is there your going to have one heck of an obedient dog. I just seriously introduced my GSP pup to live birds 2 weeks ago. The guy that I got her from is helping me train her and he couldnt believe when she pointed that first pidgeon, and he told her to woa, (she was on a 30' retractable BTW), that she locked up and wouldnt move, he slowly let the retractable in little by little, and petted her, praised her for a good woa, then flushed that pidgeon and she did what she was supposed to. Then pointed 2 quail, while being shot over with a blank when she was running after the bird after flushed, she didnt flinch at all. In the nxt few weeks im going to introduce her to some chukkar and then the pheasants and im going to down a bird for her today so she can get a glimpse of the whole picture. So, IMO i would say that yes... 20 mins can be enough to train a dog. Short prompt to the point sessions with a positive emphasis near the finish is what both the obedience trainer and the field trainer have been preaching to me the whole time. And honestly, I think most of the dogs ability in the field is in the blood. Something in their head just snaps when they get around that birs and it almost becomes natural. Im not one with tons of knowledge, but this has worked for me and im pretty proud of it.

Jim

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:01 am

i have been working with my 7 month old gsp pup on come and in the yard he comes about 60 or 70 percent of the time with out correction with the cc on so i decided to take him out so friday afternoon i took him and let him run witch was the first time i let him out and run since i got him he had a cc on and i firgured he would range out a little maybe 50 or 60 yards so i put my garmin on him and did a little work with him and let him loose and he wouldnt stay any where close to me he would stay any where from 60 to 200 yards away from me is this normal for that young of a dog to run that far from me? with out ever being let loose like that before. but he did listen to me about 40 percent of the time when i told him to come so this leads to a question

can i or should i introduce the ecollar so i can control him better and when can i start to train him with the help of my dvd at this point like i said he is responding to come about 60 or 70 percent of the time he has pointed about 4 or 5 pigeons so far.

SJ~ Is this pup out of Jax? If so... well you have a pup that is out of a true All Age running Shorthair. From what I see the dam is out of FT lines too. The range that he is running is something I would expect from that type of dog that has only been run sparingly.

I have a 7 month old bitch out of Jax and she runs bigger than yours. I would say that you need to intro to collar to your pup, to come to you and bend with you in the field, because he's just going to get more independant as he grows into his legs. Don't put him on the ground without that Garmin though. They can get away pretty quick.

Don't intro whoa for a while yet, and definately NOT with the collar. He's too young, and if he's anything like mine, he probably stands pretty broke naturally.

Sounds like you've got a nice pup, he just has a lot of horsepower in his engine and you need to control it to make him the type of dog you want him to be.

Your training sounds like it's working, and I think that 20 mins is enough to do obedience work in the yard.

Doug

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:40 am

Calisdad wrote:Not really. I think you need to find more time. You are quickly going to miss a window where he is very impressionable and easier to train.

It sounds to me that you haven't established a bond with him and that's why he doesn't come as frequently as you would like or stay as near.

An e-collar is intended to inforce what you have already taught him, not make him do what he doesn't understand.

You've got your work cut out for you. Best of luck.

I disagree here. I think there is a bond but the pup is at the age of freedom. All my GSP's try to be "selectively deaf" at some point between 6 and 10 months. BUT I will say that I think you have MORE problems with Come than you would have if he had been off lead younger. When they are little pups you can work with their desire to not be left alone. Starting at this age you are giving him independence for the very first time right when he is most prone to try out his freedom anyway. It's just more of a headache for you I think.

I do agree that you need to probably work on come more withut the ecollar on a long lead first. I do get the impression that he thinks it's a suggestion, and sounds like he has maybe been able to not listen alot, so you'll have that to get past. In fact I always introduce ecollar recall on a CC

You'll get it though if you don't throw the ecollar on with no CC and have him bolt. Then you'll get a dog that knows he can run away out of the reach of the collar. A bolter. Bad news.

SO on the original question, 20 minutes is perfect for yard work. You can train to the ecollar and yard whoa and all sorts of stuff but adding in birds you will not have time. The logistics of getting birds out and setting up takes at least half of that if you are very fast. It usually takes me 15 minutes to set launchers and plant bird right next to the house. BUT if you can get him out for 2 weekends a month for a half day, you might be able to do it. The concern is that you will want to overdo the yard work since that's what you have time for. Drill that here command for some control, train a "turn" command to give him a steering wheel, and then use the rest of your time to play and have fun, or on "family manners." It's a good amount of time to develop a natural retrieve while you are waiting on the bird days. A dog with daily play retrieve can really develope a passion for it that will astound you, if you do it right.

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:00 pm

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:
i have been working with my 7 month old gsp pup on come and in the yard he comes about 60 or 70 percent of the time with out correction with the cc on so i decided to take him out so friday afternoon i took him and let him run witch was the first time i let him out and run since i got him he had a cc on and i firgured he would range out a little maybe 50 or 60 yards so i put my garmin on him and did a little work with him and let him loose and he wouldnt stay any where close to me he would stay any where from 60 to 200 yards away from me is this normal for that young of a dog to run that far from me? with out ever being let loose like that before. but he did listen to me about 40 percent of the time when i told him to come so this leads to a question

can i or should i introduce the ecollar so i can control him better and when can i start to train him with the help of my dvd at this point like i said he is responding to come about 60 or 70 percent of the time he has pointed about 4 or 5 pigeons so far.
SJ~ Is this pup out of Jax? If so... well you have a pup that is out of a true All Age running Shorthair. From what I see the dam is out of FT lines too. The range that he is running is something I would expect from that type of dog that has only been run sparingly.

I have a 7 month old bitch out of Jax and she runs bigger than yours. I would say that you need to intro to collar to your pup, to come to you and bend with you in the field, because he's just going to get more independant as he grows into his legs. Don't put him on the ground without that Garmin though. They can get away pretty quick.

Don't intro whoa for a while yet, and definately NOT with the collar. He's too young, and if he's anything like mine, he probably stands pretty broke naturally.

Sounds like you've got a nice pup, he just has a lot of horsepower in his engine and you need to control it to make him the type of dog you want him to be.

Your training sounds like it's working, and I think that 20 mins is enough to do obedience work in the yard.

Doug

..................................................................................................................

We know each other well enough SJ that I can have a big laugh here. You have a pup out of an AA dog? Get those running shoes out and enjoy that dog.You've got your self a Lamborghini not a Ford. I must say though that it is not easy to shorten up an AA dog.

jimalbert · Post by **jimalbert** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:14 pm

just to add something funny.... now that abby know whoa, i very seldom say stay.... she reacts much better to the whoacommand. Its kind of funny how you can pick things out that your dog does better than others and use that as an emphasis on certain commands.

Jim

sjkennels · Post by **sjkennels** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:12 pm

it just surprised me for it being the first time that i know of him getting to run or it is since i had him that he ran out that far and he must think he is a Lamborghini because he would see a tweetie bird a 100 yds away and he thinks he can catch it then when he couldnt he would come back and get to about 200 yds away and start running around again but i wasn't upset with him when he got out that far it just surprised me im just glad i decided to put that garmin on him before i let him go but i think he is going to turn out to be a very good dog

Keny Glasscock · Post by **Keny Glasscock** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:03 pm

yes it is if you're talking yard work.

Gun Dog Forum

is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup

Re: is 20 min a day enough to work with a pup