E-collar Fear

[BillGraves]

I am new here so please bear with me if this topic has been covered a million times before.

I just picked up a 5-year old male GSP from a breeder. This dog was returned to the breeder from the original owners because of a surprise baby and less time to give to the dog. He obeys pretty well. Knows "sit," "here/come," trying to work on "heel" being right beside me instead of a little out in front. Anyway, I would love to train him to hunt so I got an e-collar. I read all the manuals, watched the DVD that came with it and wanted to get started. I took him out in the yard and threw him a tennis ball, which he loves, a few times and he went right to it. Then I put on the e-collar, as per the training video (1-2 fingers under the collar), and he shut down. I threw the same ball in the same place and he wanted nothing to do with it. He kind of chased/trotted after it a little bit then just turned around and came back to me. I didn't even turn this thing on. I tried to loosen the collar but to no avail.

My guess is that his former owners had an e-collar of some sort and it was abused and used too much and that is why he shuts down. Does this sound about right?

How can I get him to realize that the collar isn't going to hurt him anymore when he doesn't want to do anything fun with it on?

Thanks

[vzkennels]

Kinda sounds like your assumptiom of collar abuse might be correct.To get the dog use to it I would put the collar on him everytime you are doing anything with him.Do not turn it on just do the normal playing fetching etc with him untill he starts to ignore the collar & act normal with it on.Let him chase some birds wearing it anything that will get him excited enough to forget about it.This might take some time but be patient & treat him like a puppy just getting started.Good luck with it but fun, patience, & praise are the key.

[topher40]

Bill-
I think you are right on with your "diagnosis" also. To ad to what VZ stated I would also find a local club, trainer our group to help you with this issue. It sure would make the transition for you and the dog much easier! Good luck

[kninebirddog]

That does sound like someone who was trying to train with a collar and not teach cues so that the collar had a meaning then took the collar off so the dog associate the collar with negative

I would also just put the collar on and do fun things and ignore the dog while in a shut down mode as everytime the collar comes off in that state of mind it only furthers the issue

[bobbaganoosh]

Perhaps you shouldnt use an e-collar at all. If he obeys here/come pretty good and will retrieve the bird to you then I wouldnt worry about using an ecollar.

[vzkennels]

Let me clear one thing up,DON'T & I mean DON'T praise the dog when it is acting scared or afraid,that is rewarding the dog for being afraid.Do praise the dog when he is acting normal & happy & does things right.Like Knine said ignore the dog when it is acting scared.

[Calisdad]

That does sound like someone who was trying to train with a collar and not teach cues so that the collar had a meaning then took the collar off so the dog associate the collar with negative

I would also just put the collar on and do fun things and ignore the dog while in a shut down mode as everytime the collar comes off in that state of mind it only furthers the issue

Ditto. The dog is 5 years old. He's been around the block and now he has to try to bond with yet another owner and one of the first thing you do is pull out something he has had bad experiences with. Give him a break. Get to know him first. Maybe the collar isn't necessary.

good luck-

[BillGraves]

The collar is going to be used so that I don't have to start calling him in the woods and scare off/spook any birds. It will be used for checking in.

[kninebirddog]

this is a link to my attempt at explaining how iI view and use the e collar Understanding The E Collar

[BillGraves]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will be taking this slowly with the introduction to MY collar (assuming that there was another ecollar involved.)

[gonehuntin']

The collar is going to be used so that I don't have to start calling him in the woods and scare off/spook any birds. It will be used for checking in.

That would be the way to make him spooky of the collar again.

You have to make that dog understand the collar is his friend. Every time you take that dog out for a walk or out for play, put the collar on him. Never use it. Make him understand that the collar means fun, not punishment.

After several months, he'll get the picture. Then learn how the collar should be used and only use it on low intensity. Never use the collar without issuing a command first. You can't just bump him in the woods when you want him closer without issuing a command, oral or whistle first, or you'll make him collar shy all over again.

First thing is, you have to learn how a collar is used. Then teach the dog slowly and with little pressure.

[BillGraves]

The collar is going to be used so that I don't have to start calling him in the woods and scare off/spook any birds. It will be used for checking in.

That would be the way to make him spooky of the collar again.

You have to make that dog understand the collar is his friend. Every time you take that dog out for a walk or out for play, put the collar on him. Never use it. Make him understand that the collar means fun, not punishment.

After several months, he'll get the picture. Then learn how the collar should be used and only use it on low intensity. Never use the collar without issuing a command first. You can't just bump him in the woods when you want him closer without issuing a command, oral or whistle first, or you'll make him collar shy all over again.

First thing is, you have to learn how a collar is used. Then teach the dog slowly and with little pressure.

I should be more clear...I will be using a tone to call him back to me, not the shock. This of course will be used in the field after training of the command + tone until my voice is not needed anymore. Sorry I wasn't clear.

[Calisdad]

Just the same go slowly. You know how some dogs get excited when you pull out their leash? Mine does when he sees the e-collar. He loves to collar up. But its a conditioned response. Your dog has a different conditioning. Before it can be useful for you he has to be taught it is nothing to fear. If he responds to food you might try giving him a treat every time you collar him up. You have to find a way to change his behavior pattern.

good luck-

[RayGubernat]

BillGraves-

I also believe that your dog will come to welcome the sight of the e-collar if you put it on him every time you interface with him in the yard.

If he shuts down when it is put on him, remember that he is five years old. He has had lots of experiences with the e-colar by now and probably not all of them were good ones. But you need to be aware that he may also have developed the shut down mode as an excape behavior. Dogs are smarter than we sometimes give them credit for. They can fool you.

Best thing, as previously said, its to put it on him in the yard and then go about the things you normally do, while encoraging the dog to play. Sooner or later, if you keep it positive, the dog will decide that messing with you is better than sulking.

I would have him wear it every single time he is let out of his kennel. If he won't chase a ball, throw a small piece of hot dog a short way after you tease him with it...let him smell it and jump for it. Betcha he don't let that lay there too long!

If the dog has the kind of bird drive that a good bird dog should have, you can also use that to get him past his current behavior with the e-collar. If e-collar = bird, especially bird in mouth... then, for most decently bred bird dogs, the e-collar will rapidly become a very welcome sight. It is not that they will love the e-collar...they live and breathe to find birds, so if the e-collar means they will get to go kill something, they soon welcome the sight of it.

Patience and persistence will get you there.

RayG

[Sharon]

I had a dog who feared the e-collar due to previous abuse. She was a big running , beautiful field trail dog. She would stay at your side when the collar was on. I was ready to forget the collar and tolerate some misbehaviour.

My trainer friend said, " Sharon if you give in , you might as well put her up as far as having her ready for trials." or something close to that.
I kept the collar on and ignored her being at my side.
I had another dog run with us. Before long , she so wanted to be out there with the other dog/birds that she overcame her fear of the collar. I use it at the lowest effective setting.

Thought: was her behaviour ( staying at my side), escape behaviour because of a fear of the collar or not wanting to do what she didn't want to do? Do they think at some level "This collar is going to make me do what i don't want to do? "Soft" behaviour is often avoidance behavior . It works too.

[BillGraves]

Well, I had some success today. I have had the collar in his crate with him for the past 2.5 days. I put it on him this afternoon to throw some ball and it took a little bit but he finally got the idea that the collar is not going to hurt him. He chased the ball around for a good 20 min. before I started working with him on commands. I had him off lead while chasing the ball and everytime he turned back to me with the ball in his mouth, I gave him a loud "here" and he brought it right back. I put him on a 15 ft. lead and worked on his sit-stay, here, and heel...worked very well. Then I took him off lead and did the same and did pretty well also. He got distracted by another dog in another yard so I put him back on lead and did some more. All in all, I spent about an hour with him (20 min. play, 20 min work, 20 min. play) I might have a bird dog yet!