What can't you get back when training an adult dog?

[Atheist]

Hello everyone,

I'm curious as to what you guys think about this question..

Let us say that one of the below two dogs is picked up by trainer 1, and the other by trainer 2. Without debating on how much skill the trainer has (so just assume `equal`), let me know what you think.

Dog 1) A 2 year old GSP that has been hunted over showing good instinct but has very little field training. Let us say that this dog your average weekend warrior -- stays outside sometimes and inside other times. Knows your basic house dog commands.
Dog 2) A 6 week old GSP puppy from average blood lines

I am wondering what differences you would see between these two dogs in terms of what you could expect them to do. Specifically, I would love to hear from people of experience on these points:

1) Behavior in the field including ranging and key commands such as easy, whoa, etc.
2) Behavior in the house and around other dogs -- can you affect the demeanor of a dog by responding to its actions in a consistent way. Does this lose efficacy as the dog ages?

A friend of mine and I were discussing this and neither of us are really educated enough to know what you could expect out of an adult dog compared to a puppy. The most obedient, best hunting dog I have EVER hunted with or been around was trained by the dad of a friend of mine from a puppy so my opinion has a definite sway.

What do you guys think?

[Brittguy]

To make it short, neither dog has an advantage or disadvantage from reaching his full ability . With the older dog you will see your results sooner.

[MikeB]

I don't like bringing home a pup at 6 weeks. Needs to stay with the litter till at least 7 or 8 weeks. The mom and other pups teachs each of them better manners. But the difference in starting with an 8 week old pup and a 2 yr.old I agree with Britguy. With a young pup you have the advantage of raising the pup using proper crate training, potty on command, socialization skills to friendly dogs, early field socialization skills, people, places and things socialization skills that maybe the other 2 yr. old didn't get. If the older dog got the same socialization and early obed and field skills and has the same drive to work then it's many times easier with an older dog as you can jump in a teach the older dog faster to some degree. No waiting for the pup to mature.

Just to expand a bit ... in other types of working dogs like for police, drug, bomb, search & resuce, guide dog work, or service dogs a lot of those dogs of many different breeds don't even start serious training in their given field until at least 18 months old. Not to say that each pup didn't get huge amounts of socialization skills and basic puppy training skills needed for their work in later life. I have raised 6 pups for guide dogs for the blind, 5 German Shepherds and 1 Lab over 14 years. I was taught how much socialization is needed that you can't get back if you don't start early. 7 weeks to 16 weeks is the best time frame for early socialization, crate and potty on command training. 4 months to 12 months is when most of the basic obedience skills are taught. It is all age related training not to over push the pup into to much stress till they can handle it. Only 60 % maybe less make it in to full time guide dog work. Maybe higher percentage with other types of working dog training.

Hope that helps give you a better perspective on your question. At least from my experience.

[gonehuntin']

I'm not sure I fully understand your question, but I can guarantee you this: The greater a bond and the more time you spend with a dog, the better he'll work for you, the more responsive to you he'll be, and the easier to train he will be.

[Atheist]

First, I have updated my thread slightely for the last poster to better show what I mean.

Second, I am surprised that breaking the older dogs bad habits have not come up. I would have thought an older dog to be more difficult to train because rather than ingraining in them from a young age what you expect from them, you have to try to break what they know as acceptable and then teach them something new. Is this not the case at all?

Thanks so much for the feedback thus far.

[AzDoggin]

I don't like bringing home a pup at 6 weeks. Needs to stay with the litter till at least 7 or 8 weeks. The mom and other pups teachs each of them better manners. But the difference in starting with an 8 week old pup and a 2 yr.old I agree with Britguy. With a young pup you have the advantage of raising the pup using proper crate training, potty on command, socialization skills to friendly dogs, early field socialization skills, people, places and things socialization skills that maybe the other 2 yr. old didn't get. If the older dog got the same socialization and early obed and field skills and has the same drive to work then it's many times easier with an older dog as you can jump in a teach the older dog faster to some degree. No waiting for the pup to mature.

Just to expand a bit ... in other types of working dogs like for police, drug, bomb, search & resuce, guide dog work, or service dogs a lot of those dogs of many different breeds don't even start serious training in their given field until at least 18 months old. Not to say that each pup didn't get huge amounts of socialization skills and basic puppy training skills needed for their work in later life. I have raised 6 pups for guide dogs for the blind, 5 German Shepherds and 1 Lab over 14 years. I was taught how much socialization is needed that you can't get back if you don't start early. 7 weeks to 16 weeks is the best time frame for early socialization, crate and potty on command training. 4 months to 12 months is when most of the basic obedience skills are taught. It is all age related training not to over push the pup into to much stress till they can handle it. Only 60 % maybe less make it in to full time guide dog work. Maybe higher percentage with other types of working dog training.

Hope that helps give you a better perspective on your question. At least from my experience.

Mike - do you think all of the socialization that the service dogs get early on - all the going to different places, crowds of people, grocery store, the mall, on and on - would benefit a bird dog as well? Or do you think basically birds, terrain, time with owner and maybe other dogs is preferable for bird dogs in that 7 to 16 week stage? I'm just curious - it's obvious the benefit that the service dogs get - nothing surprises them after seeing so much so early.

[Atheist]

You make a very interesting point.

I was sort of getting at the fact that I would like a weekend warrior dog who I can trust around any dogs during the week, but for the purpose of hunting I can definitely see what you were getting at.

Do you think that breaking the bad field habits of an adult dog and replacing them with good habits is on par difficulty wise with developing good habits in a puppy in the first place?