help on pup and wild quail

[jfreeman GSP]

I would like to thank everyone for thier advice so far. And if I can impose on you'll again
I would apreciate it. My pup is 4 months old and no formal training yet, I take him out
to the field to exercise him and he has pointed lots of wild quail over the last 3 or 4 weeks
he has locked up nicely on some points, but he seems to creep up on point more now and
occasionaly will at the last minute make a leap to try to catch the bird, but never comes close
except one time and the bird flushed about a foot in front of him, my question is sould I
just let him keep working them on his own or his this hindering him for later formal training.
I mainly just let him run and play and point or explore with nearly no talking or any commands
except occasionaly call him with come if I need to. Most of the time I will walk in front of him
to flush the bird or birds for him, when I can get there before the birds flush on thier own, these birds have not been shot at but seem to be getting less likely to hold for him, they
may be getting dog shy I don't know.
Thanks
Jimmy

[birddogger]

I wouldn't do anyting different in the field than you are doing now. The wild birds are great for him and will teach him he can't catch them. At four mos. old, he is just a baby. You are allowing him to have fun and get bird crazy, I am a little bit envious of your resources Once he gets old enough for formal training, you can work on bird manneres in a controlled situation with pigeons or pen raised birds. It sounds like you are doing right. JMO.

Charlie

[jfreeman GSP]

Thanks Birddogger I am fortunate enough to have access to this place it is around 500 acres
and has had no livestock on parts for 10 years and the other parts for about 3 years and
hasn't been hunted, but I still think the quail are getting wise to the game even no gun
is involved. The avatar is one of his better points on a single.
Thanks again
Jimmy

[Birddog3412]

Like everyone else said I would just keep doing what you are doing. Pups will learn alot on wild quail, unlike pen raised birds that you have to worry about the pup catching. He will eventually learn he cannot catch them.

[vzkennels]

JF if the birds are getting wise it will only teach your dog that he can't crowd them or catch them.That is a good thing,the wild birds will teach your dog more then you will ever teach him using pen birds.Pen birds can be good but if not handled correctly can also cause problems,it's a matter of timing with them.The wild birds take care of the timing with out you in the equation.Your pup is doing fine & will continue if you just keep your mouth shut & let him do what comes natural to him.Let him be a puppy & let the birds teach him.I envy you guys that have access to wild birds you don't know how lucky you are.
Good Luck, have fun & let your pup & birds teach YOU!!

[jfreeman GSP]

Thanks all for the advice it very much appreciated.
Jimmy

[RayGubernat]

Jimmy -

At four months of age, your dog is waaay too young for anthing that resembles formal training. I also agree that the birds will teach your yongster what it needs to know in the way of respect. With that kind of exposure, you may well wind up with a dog that is pretty much broke without doing much besides taking it out there.

You are indeed fortunate to have such a training resource. Treasure it.

RayG

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Your a lucky Dude!!! You are doing everything right so far. Let pup be a pup and let the birds teach him. Your only thing you need to do next, at around 6 months is to slowly introduce him to the gun, meaning a cap gun or a blank when he is in full chase on a bird. Wait for pup to get at least 20 yards away before firing. If he stops to look back, don't do it anymore for a few weeks. You want for him to ignore the shot while he is chasing. Beyond that, you may want to start him on yard work (not on birds) for things like check cording (pattern) to go with you, come to you, and stand still. I'm sure RayG has some helpfull thoughts on what is next.

[Sharon]

I wouldn't do anyting different in the field than you are doing now. The wild birds are great for him and will teach him he can't catch them. At four mos. old, he is just a baby. You are allowing him to have fun and get bird crazy, I am a little bit envious of your resources Once he gets old enough for formal training, you can work on bird manneres in a controlled situation with pigeons or pen raised birds. It sounds like you are doing right. JMO.

Charlie

Exactly. I let mine chase until they figure out they can't catch a bird and tighten up a which time the CC is used. Others though would not do it this way. It has always worked for me and produced a staunch dog who will hold its' intensity no matter whether he/she can see me or not. My presence has nothing to do with it. The bird has taught the lessons.

[MadMax]

I'm new to the game, but would rolling a clipped wing pigeon or other type of bird out for the pup to catch and retrieve, after he points and flushes help him keep the drive. I feel that if he keeps pointing, flushing, and no reward for his effort, he will stop wanting to do it.

[RayGubernat]

MadMax -

I am not so new to this game and I must tell you that deliberately setting up a scenario where a pointing breed dog catches and mouths a bird is not a good thing.

If you have a dog with low drive or desire, then perhaps cranking it up with wing clips is justified.

Personally, that dog would be removed from the genepool, if it were mine, but I do understand that some folks simply do not have that option and must work with what they have.

It is still playing with fire, no matter what, because if a pointing dog understands at any level that it CAN catch a bird, will always have that in the back of their minds. "Maybe if I jump in, I can catch this sucker." or Maybe if I take one more step closer, I can get into a position to catch this sucker." or...well... you get the idea. Pointing dogs are bred to point and hold their birds. Anything that encorages them to NOT point, should be avoided or discouraged.

With a decently bred pointing dog, I do not believe there is any reason whatsoever, to deliberately allow the dog to ever catch a bird and a whole bunch of reasons not to allow it.

RayG