Backing problems

[Soldaat]

A hunting buddy of mine owns a male GSP-3 years old. Problem is he shows no desire to back, in fact he completely ignores the pointing dog and just goes on hunting. Any ideas on how we can try and sort this out?

[Sharon]

How have you trained for this so far.?

I always put a dog on a bird where he can't be seen
I bring the backing dog on a CC over the top of the hill or around the corner and whoa him on initial site of the pointing dog .
Works fine.

Someone posted on here that this is not the way to do it.
They said the backing dog should be backing on bird scent, not on the sight of the pointing dog.
I didn't understand that as sometimes the backing dog is 80 yards away so can't be backing on bird scent.
Maybe someone will clarify.

Apparently some dogs are natural backers out of the womb, but I've never owned such a dog.

[texscala]

How have you trained for this so far.?

I always put a dog on a bird where he can't be seen
I bring the backing dog on a CC over the top of the hill or around the corner and whoa him on initial site of the pointing dog .
Works fine.

Someone posted on here that this is not the way to do it.
They said the backing dog should be backing on bird scent, not on the sight of the pointing dog.
I didn't understand that as sometimes the backing dog is 80 yards away so can't be backing on bird scent.
Maybe someone will clarify.

Apparently some dogs are natural backers out of the womb, but I've never owned such a dog.

I trained the same way and the dog figured it out pretty quick. I expect the dog to back on site and not on scent. My dog was not a natural backer and needed some guidance.

[ezzy333]

Someone posted on here that this is not the way to do it.
They said the backing dog should be backing on bird scent, not on the sight of the pointing dog.
I didn't understand that as sometimes the backing dog is 80 yards away so can't be backing on bird scent.
Maybe someone will clarify.

I think this is a case of someone talking before they think. If that was true a dog would never have to back unless he was downwind. Don't believe you can find a judge who will go along with that.

My oldest backed naturally and it took just a few trips to the field for the younger female to start and now her pup is starting. I never have said a word to them as far as teaching but I think they learn from the other dogs.

Ezzy

[birddogger]

You are exactly right Sharon. I can't imagine anybody thinking a backing dog is pointing by scent. They are honoring a point by sight. Anybody who says different, is talking out of his/her you know what. Most of my dogs have always done it naturally, but I have one now that I had to use the method you are talking about.

Charlie

[Shadow]

you and your freind should get on this post and ask questions together- I'd lay money you would hear ways to get the dog backing

[AzDoggin]

My oldest backed naturally and it took just a few trips to the field for the younger female to start and now her pup is starting. I never have said a word to them as far as teaching but I think they learn from the other dogs.

Ezzy

It's so nice when the hardest thing we have to do is just stay out of the dog's way.

[phermes1]

Our girl Buffy has one of the most natural backs you'll ever see. Her daughter ... not so much. Fixing that is my summer project.

Backing on scent isn't backing. It's more likely a stolen point.

[3Britts]

So, two dogs are hunting the same hedge row. One on one side and one on the other. The first dog goes ridged upon scenting a bobwhite and the other dog follows suit shortly thereafter. As this is a field trial, the first dogs gets the find and the second dogs is dq'd for stealing point. The judges, after a short and very heated conversation, decide that the second dog was scent honoring the first dog's point and let it continue to run the brace.

This must have been what your friend meant by scent backing.

[SubMariner]

So, two dogs are hunting the same hedge row. One on one side and one on the other. The first dog goes ridged upon scenting a bobwhite and the other dog follows suit shortly thereafter. As this is a field trial, the first dogs gets the find and the second dogs is dq'd for stealing point. The judges, after a short and very heated conversation, decide that the second dog was scent honoring the first dog's point and let it continue to run the brace.

This must have been what your friend meant by scent backing.

Unfortunately, this happened today in the FT we were in, only our GSP didn't get the benefit of the "scent honouring" defense.

Hope he does better tomorrow...

[Sharon]

Now that is an example of what drives me over the edge when it comes to field trials. That and the dog needing to point the empty bush when he knows the birds have self flushed over his head. I'm all for rules but, let's be reasonable on some of these things. ( I think I'd better take another year off. )

[rustyrat]

sharon
first , it is much easier to teach a dog to back, especially one that is reluctant to do so, by setting up a situation where the dog not only suddenly sees the pointng dog but scents the birds. this is not saying that a dog should back by scent but that the scent will help instill the pint when it comes to getting the dog to back, especially when the bird is electonically controlled to pop if the dog approaches too near to the pointing dog. as to your troubles with field trials, your troubles revolve around judges who read a rule book and now think they know something or worse yet individuals with tons of money who have had dogs with pros for years and have never even hunted, they read the rules and away we go. as too your pointing the empty bush, maybe your one of those that read the rule book?? the pointing dog may or may not be in jeopardy of being picked up but a dog that backed must hold his ground or he/she is up unless the pointing dog leaves. requiring a back from the far side of a hedgerow is visually impossible but it is very frustrating when the dog that obviously can't see a pointing dog bumps up a grouse thatyou really wanted to get a shot at, a whoa may be in order. too many judges are sorely lacking in knowledge and experience

[Keny Glasscock]

Backing is sight oriented and situational. The bird is there to reinforce the training. I teach backing with the wind to the backing dogs rear intentionally. In the intial stages I'll always have the young backing dog on a CC where I can reinforce the honor.

[rustyrat]

i only suggest you watch a litter of pups rampaging through a field and suddenly they are all pointing and or backing, in reality most have scent but soon many back on sight, i've coerced many a reluctant dog to back with a strong scent cone. there are as many ways to solve a problem or train a dog as there are human beings trying to do it

jim