Nick or Constant

[surferdave]

My 6 month old understands and complies to come, here, stay and place with an e-collar. When first e-collar conditioning him, I used a check cord, and held the constant button until he came fully to my side (obviously on the lowest level to create a response). Now he is pretty much rock solid, but from time to time he gets distracted, sniffing geese poop, looking at another dog etc. When he doesn't comply right away, should I still be pushing constant till he gets to me, or just nick to get his attention. It's not like he's looking at me in the eye and blowing me off, but more like his focus is elsewhere, as if he doesn't hear me. If I keep up with these corrections will it make him more conscious of my voice and commands?

[Ruffshooter]

Will he come in, in the right amount of time before the collar shuts off, (if yours does this) If not then you are teaching the dog he can wait it out. But on another note: Does your dog go out and hunt well with out worry in his eyes. How many birds, Remind me of what breed.

Rick

[surferdave]

Rick, he hunts strong and confident. I have never placed any corrections on him when he's out finding pigeons or wings. He's a lab. Perfect example is, he'll be off leash, head down smelling or not paying attention. I will call him to come, he does not lift his head or look at me. I call come again and give stimulation, usually the moment I nick, he see's me and starts running. I have a dogtra 1900 ncp, it has a pager(vibration), constant and nick button. I guess it has more to do with awareness than compliance.

[Ditch__Parrot]

constant, At the same time you give the command the first time.

[Ruffshooter]

Surfer Dave:

Does the collar stimulation shut off after a certain period of time?

With constant stimulation you need to be able to reel him in quickly (Check cord) to get the stimulation off when he is by your side. My innotek will shut off in 10 seconds (on constant) so you need to have compliance in that time frame.

With the Knick, your dog needs to understand what the knick is so you have to teach it while on a checkcord also. Then when the correction is made they respond quickly to the knick and are not trying to figure it out in the field.

There are better ecollar folks here than me. This just my take.

Rick

[surferdave]

The tough thing is, at 6.5 months, I want to be correcting when he is not compliant, rather than correcting his non-alertness to my commands. Seems as though WHEN he does see me, and focuses on the command he complies very well. It's just getting his attention away from the distraction and to me. Most of my corrections are while he is within 30 yards of me, so when I press continuous, it keeps stimulus on until he's by my side. Again on 127 levels of stimulus, everything is usually at 20. So pretty minimum.

[surferdave]

constant, At the same time you give the command the first time.

How do I give constant stimulus simultaneously with the first command without giving him time to respond to my command? Shouldn't I give him time to respond before applying stimulus? I don't want to correct him if he complies right away.

[Ditch__Parrot]

With constant stimulation you need to be able to reel him in quickly (Check cord) to get the stimulation off when he is by your side. My innotek will shut off in 10 seconds (on constant) so you need to have compliance in that time frame.

so when I press continuous, it keeps stimulus on until he's by my side.

Try to clear this up. I don't do as mentioned in the quotes above. I use continuous. But compliance is the action of them coming to me. No need to hold it down until they are at my side. Say the command hit the button at the same time, as soon as they are in the action of complying to the command I let off. Now with my older dog 90% of the time a nick would be all it takes but my finger is on the continuous button for that 10% when she decides to test me.

non-alertness ??????? Your dog is testing you and you are failing.

[Ditch__Parrot]

constant, At the same time you give the command the first time.

How do I give constant stimulus simultaneously with the first command without giving him time to respond to my command? Shouldn't I give him time to respond before applying stimulus? I don't want to correct him if he complies right away.

Mine turn off the stimulation themselves by complying to the command. The faster they respond the faster the stimulation goes away. If they try to ignore a command the stim goes up. Now we are talking about a very low stimulation to start with. The lowest that they will notice and respond to.

In short no I'm not giving them a chance. I want it to become 2nd nature to respond immediately to a command. Then on the few days when I'm on the road and forget a charger or something goes wrong with collar it's no big deal. I use it to train dog and much like a cordless check-cord. Not as a punishment tool for not complying.

[surferdave]

Parrot, Interesting take on it. I guess if you give them stimulus every time you give a command they will definitely learn to respond faster. I might try that.

[kninebirddog]

There are many methods that work for people the most important is the one you pick you STICK with it

Method I use much like I do with leads and check cords is a tug tug or tap tap for a movement command move with me or to me My body will indicate what I am asking as if I am walking along and the dog doesn't go with me as I turn it will be much like him hitting the end of the lead I will tap the e collar buttons until the dog bends with me This is after I work this same pattern with the lead and the check cord

I will use constant till stopped I begin this with the leash and pups by pulling up just enough for them to feel the collar and as soon as they stand still i give slack to the lead then I teach this the smith method of the whoa post and then go to the flank to start breaking my process down for gas and brakes go with me come to me and stand still


But again no matter which method you use be consistent do not go bouncing around from method to method as you will only serve to confuse your self and worse your dog

[surferdave]

I understand sticking with one training method, and being consistent with it. I guess the problem sometimes lies when new situations or issues come up. Whether to correct or not correct. I guess I need to put in more guidelines as to what I should do in certain situations. Like if he doesn't pay attention to my voice when I'm calling, give him a nick, and if he blows me off completely, apply stimulation until he comes to my side. Thanks again.

[kninebirddog]

I understand sticking with one training method, and being consistent with it. I guess the problem sometimes lies when new situations or issues come up. Whether to correct or not correct. I guess I need to put in more guidelines as to what I should do in certain situations. Like if he doesn't pay attention to my voice when I'm calling, give him a nick, and if he blows me off completely, apply stimulation until he comes to my side. Thanks again.

That right there is the wrong way to use a collar and is the most common way people get dogs to shut down with the e collar and the blame the ecollar for the dog sticking

the dog needs to have prep work with a method

things like putting a collar on a dog for a month does not prep a dog for what the stimulation means
stimulation should mean the same as a leash or lead or check cord pinch collar etc
specially with the lower levels of e collars today

Here is the method I prep my dogs and I literally begin with puppies on a leash the same cues the same process so when I take the next step there are no surprises the over lay goes extremely quick with response not reaction


again this link is how I approach teaching a dog cues UNDERSTANDING THE E COLLAR

if you can find someone local to show you or seek a seminar Rick Smith or Maurice Lindley these methods work and help an owner and a dog succeed

[surferdave]

If you read my original post, I did talk about proper conditioning and introduction to the e-collar. I used a check cord in addition to the e-collar so my guy knows exactly how to turn off stimulation. My question is in regards to now that my dog understands the e-collar, and that not complying to my command results in stimulation (lowest level necessary for compliance). If I give a command, and he doesn't pay attention to me because he is distracted, is it best to give him a nick, or use constant till he gets next to me. I wouldn't think about blindly going into using my e-collar without doing research.

[kninebirddog]

So what you are wanting that any time your dog gets distracted in the field or where ever you want him to heel?

What I do if my dog gets distracted is if the dog needs to be Going with me like I am walking in the field I will tap the button on the e collar till he turns and goes with me If I stop and stand still then I will tap the button until the dogs turns and comes all the way to me

if i need to i will bump up the level until i get a response and then turn the level back down

I work on distractions in yard work training I walk around other dogs I toss thing I walk by things the dogs job is to concentrate on what WE are doing not what It wants to do

I go over all that in my little write up I did...but NO matter what method you chose or prepped for your answer should be there...what did you do in the yard work / prep work when the dog was blowing you off there? ..the same applies in the field

..for me until I work most of it to all of the dog trying to take control of what we are doing in the yard work I know the dog is already telling me what they will do out in the field be distracted and do it's own thing

All what you want and what you have really done to prep the dog...Think about the e collar the same as the check cord ...again what did you do in the yard work when the dog was distracted?

[gonehuntin']

You're building electrical tolerance in the dog. Don't do it. You have the dog collar conditioned. Now, when he blows you off, which is what the dog is doing, up the intensity level. I don't use constant all the way in. When the dog starts in to you, he has successfully inititaled his response. Now on the way in if the stops or hangs up, command HERE again and nick him at a higher level.

He should still be on a cc so you can show him specifically what you want and don't create a bolter..... then you'll have a problem.

It's obvious you have not collar conditioned this dog as well as you think or when you command HERE he should spin and run to your side. Use a higher nick then back it off.

[surferdave]

Gone huntin' I think you're absolutely right, and I'm realizing that his conditioning to here in a distracted situation is nowhere near perfect. His performance in the yard is near perfect. knine, to answer your question, when he does get distracted in the yard, and "blows me off", I increase the level of intensity until he performs the command, then back it down. The thing is, I hardly EVER have to correct him in the yard, his focus is 100% on me. Sounds like more check cord work in distracting situations. Also thanks for clarifying the nick or constant question. It makes sense, once he complies, no need to use constant the entire way in.

[kninebirddog]

Yard work can be in other peoples yards they may look at you strange But if you can go to new areas work on the lead and check cord

i take my pups to petsmart you should see the looks i get as I go in working my pups with my command lead. The purpose for me doing that is to let my dog know no matter where we are ...only need to be concerned with me..then when i do hit the field and I am consistent then they also start to show to go with me much better