WELL HERES THE TRUTH.....

[NE GSP]

Bite the bullet and send him to Dan Hoke I dont know him personally but have only heard good things from several people, You will be money ahead and you can probally go over and learn something and that is worth alot JMO.


Tim

[ecater2218]

Posting in all caps is like shouting.

[ACooper]

When you are hunting do you enforce the retrieve if he refuses?

[ACooper]

In order to get consistency you are going to have to enforce the command no matter what otherwise you shouldn't give it. Sounds like you have made good progress with the FF, when you said you worked him on pigeons for 3-4 days did you let him point them and then shoot the birds for him? If so he then retrieved them without any problems?

I am not familiar with the method of FF you used, does it ever have you transition to the e collar?

[ACooper]

Nice looking dog, I suggest going back through all of the FF steps and overlaying the e collar in order to move him completely to the e collar, it will go much faster when going through the second time. It will also be easier and more effective to enforce in the field with the e collar. You mentioned that he shuts down with the e collar? You do not need to use any more force than what is needed to gain compliance which should not be much since he knows the routine, but remember you are not "asking" him to comply you are making him comply you cannot let him get away with ANY refusals you MUST enforce the commands until you get compliance.

You will HAVE to set up mock hunting situations and shoot birds for him to retrieve. I would only do this once you have totally conditioned him to retrieve with the e collar. Set out your launchers let him point them and shoot the bird. You might have to enforce the retrieve by holding his collar and taking him to the bird and making him pick the bird up.

I FF a female GSP that was very difficult and took more time than the other few I have done in the past. I duplicated every step with the e collar and then again when I moved to birds. I would set her up on points and shoot birds for her and the first few times I had to hold her collar and take her to the down bird and enforce the fetch, she figured it out in a hurry.

[ACooper]

Does your 400 have 8 levels of continuous stim? I think that is the 400. The last two dogs I FF I used the ear pinch and overlayed the e collar it is the method taught by Evan Grahm, I changed a few things with some tips that I got from Brenda Roe (Snips here). I hold the collar and transmitter in one hand and the buck in the other and started FF with the collar the same way I did with the ear pinch just started by alternating the ear pinch and stim from the collar until I was only using the e collar to enforce the command, at that point I moved through all of the FF steps again with the e collar.

[Sharon]

http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/downlo ... hp?id=2237


That is a handsome dog.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

TCJack,
I think there are a few questions you need to find the answers to before you decide to FF your GSP. The man who sold you your dog told you that the dog was a finished dog, except that the dog did not retrieve. Was their any work done on the dogs retriever training, has the original owner tried to FF the dog already. This particular dog look to have a great deal of pointer in him, his point instincts may be far greater than his retrieving instincts. I have trained a fair number of these dogs and most times if they are soft, as you indicated yours is, FF is not the best training method. If your dog has not had a bird in his mouth, some play training, might help you decide
which training method to use with your dog. My brothers GSP is a lot more pointer than GSP, and even after I worked with her and she retrieved to hand on a repetative basis, her heart was just not in it. Some pointers are bred repetatively to only point birds, and not retrieve, if your dog is from one of these lines, you are working against the genetic imprint, and if the dog is soft you have a doubly hard task ahead of you.
RGD/Dave

[vzkennels]

RYG what gives you the idea of pointer in this (tcjack) dog for one? Second why do you say pointers don't retrieve ? The only pointers that don't or won't retrieve are the ones that the owners don't want or allow to retrieve.Oh & before you say it I would bet you say my avatar dog is more pointer then GSP but if she were solid LVR like her mothers full brother that wouldn't even cross your mind.
OBTW Star (avatar dog) is totally a natural retriever that puts some of the FF dogs to shame.

[birddogger]

RYG what gives you the idea of pointer in this (tcjack) dog for one? Second why do you say pointers don't retrieve ? The only pointers that don't or won't retrieve are the ones that the owners don't want or allow to retrieve.Oh & before you say it I would bet you say my avatar dog is more pointer then GSP but if she were solid LVR like her mothers full brother that wouldn't even cross your mind.
OBTW Star (avatar dog) is totally a natural retriever that puts some of the FF dogs to shame.

Exactly right Ted.

I would also disagree that you shouldn't or can't FF a soft dog, if that is what you want to do. It just doesn't take as much pressure.

Charlie