Holding point

[nowicki2005]

When working on your dog's steadiness, if he keeps wanting to bust in and grab birds, what do you do besides keeping him on the check cord? Is this where I would use a launcher while keeping him on a check cord and when I see that he's scented the bird, release the bird if he does stop immediately?

[Sharon]

That's what you do.

These questions are hard for me because of how I train. I let pup chase birds until he figures out he can't catch them and starts pointing. It might take months. By then he's pretty staunch. I don't have to ream on the check cord or use a launcher.

[Neil]

Teach the dog whoa,

Neil

[gonehuntin']

I don't let them chase and see no value in it. I steady them right in the yard then let them work it out in the field. More or less. I always teach the dog what I expect of them then let wild birds polish them during the hunting season.

[Sharon]

I don't let them chase and see no value in it. I steady them right in the yard then let them work it out in the field. More or less. I always teach the dog what I expect of them then let wild birds polish them during the hunting season.

I know. I was going to mention that in my post.

[cjuve]

That's what you do.

These questions are hard for me because of how I train. I let pup chase birds until he figures out he can't catch them and starts pointing. It might take months. By then he's pretty staunch. I don't have to ream on the check cord or use a launcher.

This is how I do it as well, I think that you end up with a better bird dog in the end. The question is what do you want out dog??

[Ruffshooter]

How old is your pup? Where are you at in training?

First: Have good flying birds. (Chuckars or Pigeons are best) Quail otherwise.
Go to a not too tall field. (so the dog can see birds fly away)
Set up a remote launcher in the wind.
Set up dog on a check cord.
Come in on the down wind side but perpendicular to the wind.
When you dog hits the scent cone, he will turn in that direction, or stop, if he keeps going, Pop the bird, if he stops whoa him up, if he steps or makes a move towards the bird, which he will pop the bird.(try to set up so you will be in the 10 to 20 yard range when you dog hits the scent cone).Of course once you have the dog poiinting and holding on its own. Then you need to finish up all the yard work, Whoa etc.. with no birds at first then you will introduce birds in the yard and do your corrections etc. then to the field and work the steadiness. All incremental stages that build on each other.

Now is the part folks do different.
If I have real good birds and enough money let the dog chase the bird, if it is a chuckar or pigeon. (Won't catch those).
If they are not good flying birds then I will hold on the check cord and praise the dog up and pick up the dog and command leave it and walk off.

There is value in letting a dog chase good flying birds only for the first few times just to jump start the thinking process and to reinforce that pointing instinct: One they can't catch them, so they learn to give up on the chase. This helps when you are grouse hunting because you do not hit every bird and who wants to be chasing a dog through the woods on a missed bird. It is easier to give the leave it command and move on to the next bird.

This is what I do, anyway.
Works for me. But the Wild birds will teach the dog he can not catch them as a rule. This will jump start his pointing and holding as well. But not all folks have access to wild bird cover close by.

[kninebirddog]

I teach a point of contact on the whoa post via the Rick Smith method

then once the dog is complying to the CUE of stand still I will go to the field and running a dog with the wind to start will launch birds and all the dog to commit to the chase then I will cue to stand still no words again this teaching of a cue is done in yard work and until the dog is stopping to the cue we do not hit the field so once the dog begins to stop to the flush on their own..no longer needing the cue to stop..Then I will work into the wind and when the dog hits the scent of the bird and doesn't stop i will flush and repeat the stop to cue if needed

once the dog is pointing on their own then I will add walking birds or slowly flushing

This has been the best way I have found to help keep the excitement and style on birds

this little gal here was a high drive stick it on over drive to get at birds when she was younger I can now walk birds around her and she holds with style

[drakecreek67]

Gone huntin when you say you steady them in the yard do you mean you are using birds in the yard?And if you are can the dogs see the birds?thanks

[Ruffshooter]

Can't answer for GH, but when you have your dog whoa broke, dog on a check cord & or ecollar trained etc. you can introduce birds in sight of the bird walking around. I do. Makes for an honest dog. It kind of ups the ante. Got one I did not do that and when doing MH twice he broke on walking birds. Then I did this drill and got him through flawless.

[drakecreek67]

Thanks ruff

[Sprig]

When working on your dog's steadiness, if he keeps wanting to bust in and grab birds, what do you do besides keeping him on the check cord? Is this where I would use a launcher while keeping him on a check cord and when I see that he's scented the bird, release the bird if he does stop immediately?

I dont use a check chord at all in the field but rely on a bird launcher. i give them some time on birds/launcher then go to the yard to get whoa trained then put them together to finish up.

[nowicki2005]

When working on your dog's steadiness, if he keeps wanting to bust in and grab birds, what do you do besides keeping him on the check cord? Is this where I would use a launcher while keeping him on a check cord and when I see that he's scented the bird, release the bird if he does stop immediately?

I dont use a check chord at all in the field but rely on a bird launcher. i give them some time on birds/launcher then go to the yard to get whoa trained then put them together to finish up.

What if all I have are pigeons? He will catch those if not on a check cord. This is my dilemma, I could do a lot more good if I had some pigeons

[kninebirddog]

Pigeon are all I use in the method I do for working the chase out of a dog... I want them to fly off allowing a dog to commit then be cued to a stop..I do not want my voice or actions to intimidate a dog on the birds

To try and whoa a dog on the birds before they are ready to stand to the flush is a lot of pressure

Good Luck

[gonehuntin']

Gone huntin when you say you steady them in the yard do you mean you are using birds in the yard?And if you are can the dogs see the birds?thanks

Yes, I like showing a dog what I want and expect in the yard, then reinforcing it in the field. Steadying to birds in the yard in the final stage of whoa breaking. When I have the dog whoaing reliably, I will whoa him and toss a shackled pigeon in front of him. When he stays steady for that, I move away from the dog, have him on a cc and whoa post, and toss birds right at him. I hide birds in the bushes in the yard and walk by downwind, expecting him to whoa.

Once the dog is in the field I rarely use whoa, mainly for honoring and steady to wing and shot. I like the dog to teach himself in the field, but I want him to know what I expect when we get there. It saves a lot of time in training.