Breaking the self-hunter

[870Express]

Let me start with the fact I know that a dog will range where a dog will range - not trying to change that. However, I think my dog is hunting for himself too much and not checking in enough. Any ideas to break this? He's a 14 month-old Brittany from close-to-medium ranging parents.

I've tried hiding on him but he'll wander for two minutes five hundred yards away before he comes back to find me. I've been whilstling him back when he gets too far or too far behind and he will come back but I think he thinks he is free to run until told to come back. I've taught him to return to gun range by the tone on his collar and it worked in the field the first year. However, we're starting hunt tests where we won't have a collar.

So far I've been trying three very different techniques: 1) walk in zig-zags to get him to come back infront - has not been working, 2) hide on him in the field so he starts paying attention and 3) whistle/ecollar back into range when out too far one way not paying attention or too far behind. Any other ideas? Again, not trying to change his range, just trying to get him to check back in. Appreciate the help.

[A/C Guy]

We taught our dogs the command "This way." We use it to change direction or redirect the dogs. I would teach him that command and every time he reaches the limit of where you want him to range tell him "This way." It works for our dogs. They cross over and work closer when we tell them that. If they are out of hearing range due to wind, they also know that 2 toots of the whistle means they are too far out and to range closer. We also taught them "Stay Close." for when we want to keep them within 15 to 30 yards. Brits are very smart. They can learn a lot of commands. Communicate to the dog and teach him. He'll get it.

[ezzy333]

My first question was how often does he check in? And how close does he come when he does check in? Why I ask is he probably knows where you are even if you can't see him. And every time he comes back to check in he is wasting time and energy as he has already hunted the area where you are asking him to come back through. With these point in mind I don't ask or want my dogs coming back to check in as long as I can see where they are working. But I too do want them paying attention to where I am but don't ask them to come back too often. Just try to keep them out in front of you. My dogs all learn the command "Up Front" during there early times in the field when we are just walking as little pups.

Ezzy

[Neil]

Skip Hunting Tests and move to Field Trials, and let him roll.

I will never understand why anyone would want a pointing dog within shotgun range,

Neil

[gonehuntin']

Skip Hunting Tests and move to Field Trials, and let him roll.

I will never understand why anyone would want a pointing dog within shotgun range,

Neil

+1. You must either be an old flushing dog man or a new pointing dog man. Every dog "hunts for himself", not for you. It is what drives them to find a bird or to retrieve a bird in thick, nasty, cover. Sounds like you're hunting him in short cover now. You'll find that many dogs will shorten their range depending on cover density.

Here's another thing. Unless you carry a rangefinder, you may find that that 500 yard dog is actually 200 yards. There are few hunters that can tell long range. He's finding his wheels and range. Let him do it on his own or sell him and buy a dog that stays at 50 yards.

[Ron R]

However, I think my dog is hunting for himself too much and not checking in enough.

If he is checking back with you he is not self hunting just stretching out further than you are comfortable with. Self hunters don't check in, trust me. If I knew the cover that he is rolling in I may be able to give more advice but all I can sugest for now is just hack him into the range that you like and if he does'nt respond give him a med nick from the ecollar.

or too far behind

I personally would never let a dog get away with hunting behind me.

Ron

[Neil]

I personally would never let a dog get away with hunting behind me.

Ron

That is good advice if you are going to trial the dog. I tend to follow the dogs to the birds when hunting, and it does cause some problems when we go to a trial. I always hunt open country with pointing dogs, so I let them take the lead to the most productive cover. The dogs know better where that is, so there is no way they can get behind,

Neil

[BigShooter]

To me self-hunting is when the dog is a heck of a long ways away, busting birds because the dog is not steady or is crowding the birds. Manners on birds is a different problem than a run-off. If the dog is a long ways off but is handling birds well and you find it on point when you get there I don't worry about how far it's ranged.

If you have acreage never let the dog out alone to hunt by itself without you.

[Ron R]

If you have acreage never let the dog out alone to hunt by itself without you.

That is exactly right. That is how self hunters are developed IMO, some may disagree.

Ron

[Ron R]

I tend to follow the dogs to the birds when hunting

My dogs have to hunt to the front and take direction to stay on the property that we have permision to hunt on. I do see your point and beleive that we are on the same page on this one. I can't just follow them, I have to point them in the right direction first.

Ron

[adogslife]

If your nose is better then your dogs,what do you need a dog for.

adogslife

[Ron R]

If your nose is better then your dogs,what do you need a dog for.

What :roll:

Ron

[870Express]

+1. You must either be an old flushing dog man or a new pointing dog man.

Gonehuntin, you got me nailed: both but this pointing dog stuff is fun. Dog'll will usually check in every two minutes or so but will sometimes go five minutes and 500+ yds. This is thin cover so I know he is going to get out a little further. I use the tone on his collar for recall when hunting and it works awesome to get him in close when he needs to be. However, I think I read that the JH bird fields are only five acres (true?). This dog hunts a lot bigger than five acres in fifteen minutes. I also have read here not to be yacking at him the whole test as the judges want to watch him work naturally. Should I just let him go?

My whole idea was that instead of me having to keep him ahead and close in the field, he would check in more often and come back infront of the direction I was heading. When I recall him he sweeps back in front at 30-50yds nicely and takes a wide sweep the other way but keeps heading that way even after I change direction (zig-zag pattern). Just trying to make him pay even more attention to me and looking for ideas. Thanks.

[gonehuntin']

One thing is, if you are just letting him run and not find any birds, try planting all of your birds 50 yards apart or so. Once he learns birds are close to Dad, they sometimes start to stay closer. This is done with traps, and carded or shackled birds.

[twofeathers]

I personally would never let a dog get away with hunting behind me.

Depending on the wind. There are times when the wind is at our backs in thick cover we have gotten birds from dogs who circled back after hitting scent of a running bird and ended up popping up right behind us. So I wouldn't say never.

[BigShooter]

I personally would never let a dog get away with hunting behind me.

Depending on the wind. There are times when the wind is at our backs in thick cover we have gotten birds from dogs who circled back after hitting scent of a running bird and ended up popping up right behind us. So I wouldn't say never.

You make a point but it is an exception. It's tough running a dog downwind. It's pretty funny to watch. They keep trying to head upwind, crosswind - anything but downwind. If you're walking back through an area you've already pushed through, the dogs know it and will head downwind pretending to hunt a little bit, but it's obvious their heart's not in it 'cause they're positive they found every bird that was in there the first time through.

[Neil]

Unless the wind changes, it is tough to get back to the truck without hunting with the wind to your back, but I have some of the good ones just pretty much hunt at my side. They are not going to get in trouble for running over a bird.

There are a lot of things that are artificial in field trials, but the always running hard to the front, no matter the objectives or wind direction is the one that causes me the most grief.

It seems most handlers, judges and too many dogs neither know nor care about the wind.

You turn good hunting dogs loose, leave them alone, and watch them turn and hunt into the wind, yet we break away a brace into a 30 knott wind and think nothing of it when they have stop to flush after stop to flush.

Neil

[zzweims]

If your dog is checking in every 2-5 minutes, he IS hunting with you. Get a garmin and check yor watch. You may just find that pup hasn't gone as far or for as long as you think. 5 minutes in the field without your dog feels like an eternity, but it's really only 5 minutes. The more you try to force him to be with you, the less he is hunting. Relax and let him roll. And appreciate what you have.

Aline
http://zzfarms.com

[nowicki2005]

ill trade dogs with you

[870Express]

ill trade dogs with you

Not an option. I think the family would have me down the road before the dog would make it past the block. Hopefully I get some good advice and honest feedback from some experts at the hunt tests. Two clubs pair up so we can run all four JH tests in one weekend. Anybody try this at their first hunt test? Don't want to realize we're missing something key during the first test and have three more to go and not have a chance.