Help, Berserk Puppy and othe problems

[Qwernt]

While I grew up with hunting and cattle dogs, this is my first time owning a puppy. I was expecting a happy bouncing ball of fur that liked to follow you around and might give you a good natured nip or two. What I have is an eight week old, beautiful french brittany girl that loves to run (ie, doesn't follow much, but I think this is a good thing for a gun dog), uses her nose extremely well, and seems to be VERY smart (already does Sit, Come, Pee/Poo, and Kennel on command - well Come can be an issue if she is doing something especially interesting, but she will usually come within 20 seconds or so; at least give me a fly-by if she is running... and pee/poo doesn't happen right when I say it or where I want it, but usually fairly soon).
Here's the problem though: she works herself up into a frenzy - a frenzy any Viking Berserker would be envious of. And when she is in this frenzy she is in attack mode. If she is already excited (running, frightened, etc) then it is really easy for her to go into this attack mode. Simple things such as moving shoes or pants (someone walking), or my daughter spinning half a circle will set her off and she will attack - at least that it what it looks like to me. It could that she thinks she is playing tug of war, but when I hear grows I wonder what is going through her mind. Sometimes we can get her out of it by waving cheese in front of her face, and when she notices give the sit command - which she will often follow. If not, then I have to physically pick her up - at which point she will try to get my hands instead.
When she is not in this mode, I can do just about anything I want with her (though she isn't big on letting me see her teeth).
ANY ideas on this? I don't know if she is being dominant (maybe I read too much Dog Whisperer) or just thinks this is fun. It is more than just "puppy comes over and bites people".

[snips]

I think maybe picking her up by the nap of her neck and a little shake might be all that needs. At 8 wks old she is probably just thinking shes telling one of her littermates off. After the shake, just try to calm her.

[3Britts]

Also, if you are playing tug-a-war with her at any time, you will want to stop. It's not a game that you want to play with a bird dog unless you want her to play it with the game she is retreiving. At 8 weeks, I would work on the bonding and let her run. She'll come back after a bit.

[slistoe]

She just needs a little discipline on what is and isn't appropriate behavior. Unfortunately what most folks view as discipline or avoidance of the game is viewed by the pup as a continuation of the game and the behavior is rewarded and heightened. Be sure the pup knows you mean STOP IT!

[Ruffshooter]

When I pick a pup, your pup is the type I always choose out of a litter. As stated, disipline, order, shake by the scruff of the neck, a tap under the chin and NO!! for biting . Different things work. But just an idea. Other than that give her places to run wild, get tired out and be her self, the house, kennel or crate are no crazy zones. She will grow out of it, if you are uniform, consistant and persistant, as well as the rest of the family.

[Chukar12]

I had a similar situation with a brittany pup once that turned out to be one o the easiest going dogs that I have. I would avoid any and all rough play with the puppy. No tug of war, or wrestling between a human and the puppy at all. When the puppy get in a crazed mode, I would pin it; the neck is a good place to get a hold..and as you mentioned the "Dog Whisperer" follow as I am sure you have seen him do; stroke the puppy without letting it up until it gets calm. It takes a ton of patience, but in time the puppy will begin to understand that you will not tolerate the aggressiveness and that this "zone" does nothing for the dog. Remember it is a baby, you dont have to be rough in doing it, just firm and consistent. If you dont address it now, it can be a problem later that requires more force...and that's no fun for you or pup..

Joe

[Qwernt]

Thanks All.

We don't play tug of war (for the same "don't want to tug over a pheasant" reason), and I was starting to wonder if I should since she doesn't have a lot of games to play with people yet (haven't started fetch yet). The only times I have dropped her on her side hard was when she went for my daughter's pants and they were tights... usually she only goes for things that wave. I have a hard time bopping her nose/chin because she has her head shaking back and forth so hard with the tug of war she seems to be playing...

[welsh]

I have had a similar problem with my Welsh Springer pup, and the only thing I can add is that pinning the puppy may only make it worse. All dogs are different, of course, but in my case she calmed down when pinned and then got up, ran off and ran back for another shot. That is, she just took it as part of the game. She plays the same game with large dogs: jump up, nip, etc., then let the big dog roll you over, be submissive, and start again.

What has been working is crating her as soon as the behaviour starts, so she gets no gratification & no play out of it. Also, I took a careful look at how all the family members were interacting with her, to see where she was getting the idea that horseplay is fun.

[MikeB]

I think your expecting way to much from an 8 week old pup. Yes she's smart but this is pretty typical puppy play. If you watch the whole litter play this is what they do and yes they growl too. At this time your the litter mates, at least your daughter is. I would be very careful with any kind of scruff shake or "alpha" roll. Lying her on her side like you have seen on The Dog Whisperer may work but never on her back.

Whe in the yard during exercise and play time, I would always have your leash with you and when she starts this biting frenzy leash her up and take her directly to her crate and give her a chew toy and ignore her. If she wants to use her mouth she can use it on a proper toy.

As for pottying where YOU what her to go, take her from the crate in the AM to the place you want her to go, you can carry her but when you put her on the ground put the leash on her. Teach her to potty on command on lead. That will keep her in exactly the area you want her to go. Potty on command on leash is a wonderful training tool when traveling.
It takes plenty of consistant repetitions to teach any behavior. Keep it fun but firm.

[Chukar12]

I believe Mike is correct in his assessment and clarification, it isnt an alpha roll to a puppies back that is appropriate here. My post refers to lying the dog on its side and helping it get out of a frenzied state. There is a difference between typical puppy play, that is grabbing pants legs, biting hands, chewing etc...and a more aggressive state that appears to be "out of control." It is the latter that is best dealt with early on. I don't use words and I do not hit, I simply hold the puppy on its side and stroke it until he/she is calm. There are small signals, a deep sigh, licking the lips or an extended yawn that tells you that the puppy has submitted.

If the puppy is too rough in its "biting play" a loud "ouch" will often suffice...if it doesnt and its still biting too hard, I stick fingers or fist in their mouth enough for enough to be uncomfortable, they ususally don't press too long. My opinion on the crate is that this is the puppies space and it shouldn't be used in overt punishment. If the family doesn't have the time, patience or discipline to deal with the behavior then back to the crate with a chew toy is an option, but it should not be punishment enough that the dog wishes to avoid it. In my case, during field trials and guide trips the dog must be very comfortable in its space or we both deal with a great deal of angst and waste of valuable energy. An 8 week old puppy is in a critical imprinting stage mentally and properly applied behavioral shaping goes along way...it has to be done in tiny bites with small incremental steps, we are dealing with a baby.

[Qwernt]

Thanks again all. We have been using a different approach, and it seems to be working. The whole "say no and then distract her with something that she can chew". It does mean we have to be prepared, but "just walking away" wasn't working as she tended to hang on and follow. So far, there has been an improvement. We also started going on walks - I didn't think she was ready, but boy did she prove me wrong (though her idea of walk is happily "go hunt", ie smell EVERYTHING - especially fun with the wild cotton tails we have in the community).

[3Britts]

One more thing. She is a puppy and puppies love to chew. Have some rawhide bones around for her to dig her teeth into. I like to get the really big ones as the puppy gets tired out just trying to figure out where to begin. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Greg Jennings]

My dogs are house dogs and are currently 6 and 8, respectively. They still occasionally get rowdy.

I have taught them "emergency down" for many reasons. I then taught them to go from "down" to laying on their side with their head down.

It's very useful in getting them calmed down.

Greg J.