TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

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SHORTFAT
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TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by SHORTFAT » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:01 am

I have a question about the use of a training table... my pointer pup hates it, but that's typical from everything I've read & been told. I can't get her to jump up on it at all and have to physically place her on it. Once she's on it, she is workable... but if it's in the yard, she won't even go anywhere near it... I think with contiued consistancy & patience it will be fine, it seems she will do whatever I want her to, just to get off that table... I have her undivided attention there... but my question is, can the table be used for other training issues than just "whoa"? :?: not a short cut, but a tool?
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jimbo&rooster
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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by jimbo&rooster » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:21 am

I use my training table for force fetching. It is my understanding that the use of the table is kind of intended to get the pup up in a place where they arent really in a comfortable place.
Jim
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.

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Ruffshooter
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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by Ruffshooter » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:22 am

Does your table have ramps?
If not put some on. Helps a lot.
FF, Whoa, for me.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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SHORTFAT
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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by SHORTFAT » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:25 am

Thanks... to both posts... the table does not have ramps, as it's low enough for her to jump up, but I think if I put them on it she may be led up onto it with less resistance... how do you use it for force fetching? She's not quite ready for that yet, but I'm sure we will come to that bridge soon enough...
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
- Mark Twain.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Abraham Lincoln

Saltriver
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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by Saltriver » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:43 pm

Why use a table? since i assume that you will not be taking a table with you when you are hunting, transferring anything learned on the table to the ground is in my mind an uneccessary extra step. the only reason i can see using a table is if you have several dogs to ff and it saves on your back! teach your whoa from heel, and use your training table for what i do. (to collect lots of junk on in the garage that you don't know what else to do with!)

justin

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Ruffshooter
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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by Ruffshooter » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:43 pm

The table put the dog up on your level for the begining training making it easier on you. The table puts the dogs focus more on you. The table is a place the dog will come to understand is for work only and some good praise. Starting on the table actually in my experience limited as it is make the dog pick up on the principal of the command quicker.

Also if you FF the dog you can double tie the dog to eye bolt on each side of the table or have post and cables to help control the dog better on moving down the table for retrieves or before to imobilize the dogs head if you need to. Again you have the dogs undivided attention and is easier on your back.

IMHO and many others.

Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:25 pm

The table is a back saver and I love them. That being said a dog can be trained just as well off of one as on one. For years I never used a table. Damned old age. Don't worry about it; it's a very minor issue.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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SHORTFAT
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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by SHORTFAT » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:21 am

ok... thanks. we're doing better... I actually used the table to get her used to her bell. The first time I put it onher she bellied out and wouldn't move. I put her on the table and stood back and rang it behind my back. She eventually calmed down and now she'll wear it without a flinch... I think the more barriers we get over with this dog, the more I learn the biggest thing is patience, and all other methods and tools are just that... methods and tools... patience trains. Thanks for the help!.. :D
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
- Mark Twain.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Abraham Lincoln

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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:03 am

Shortfat -

Always remember that dogs are place oriented learners. Whatever the dog "learns" on the bench needs to be introduced again when the paws hit the dirt.

I have spoken to several trainers who feel benches are an unnecessary step. I have spoken to others who feel that taking a young dog's feet away from themhelps them to focus on the task at hand.
I personally use a wobbly bench made from a sawhorse, for whoa work which I do in conjuction with heel/whoa drills on the ground and eventually transition to all on the ground. Funny thing is,long after they have been steadidied to wing and shot in the field and I mean YEARS after, one or the other of the adult dogs will go over to the bench when cruising in the back yard and jump up with their front feet on it and look at me as if to say "my turn". If I pick one of them up and style one, you had better believe they are all waiting their turn and if I don't do each of them...they sulk.

I don't have a ramp., so, for me it is not a back saver. Picking up a sixty pound pointer is not fun sometimes, but what the heck.

RayG

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SHORTFAT
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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by SHORTFAT » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:27 am

Thanks RayG... I see the point to unnecessary steps... I want to avoid them if at all possible. But this dog was unsocialized and has a real attention problem. Having her on a wobbely table gives me her undivided attention. It's amazing how quickly they figgure out what you want when they want off that table... and re-enforcement on the ground is much easier. I was directed to use a wobbely table by a friend. She still hates it, but loves the attention. My wife laughs because she has her tail tucked under her but it's still waggin'...
It always amazes me how someone can tell you something but the light just doesn't come on until you "dummy" across it and experience it on your own... it's fun to learn with the dog.
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
- Mark Twain.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Abraham Lincoln

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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by jimbo&rooster » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:45 am

the reason that I like to use a table for FF is that Generally speaking FF is an unpleasant experience for the dog. If the dog is going to associate that with somthing I would rather it be with the table and not me or whatever else. that said to this day if i clear all the decoys and collars and crap off my table in the garage then my lab will jump on it. just like some people use a whoa post, a barrell, or a check cord for whoa there are as many ways to train a dog as their are people training its whatever works for you.
Jim
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.

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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by Ruffshooter » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:03 am

Remember make that bench a place the dog wants to be. So first just do treats, praise, petting and small training. Not that, it takes long.

Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Gordon Guy
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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by Gordon Guy » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:30 am

I would use treats as a reward for pup getting up on the table. Everytime you put your pup on the table give it a food treat. Soon that pup will be eager to get up there.

This is where Clicker training is useful.
Tom

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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by RayGubernat » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:43 am

Shortfat -

I would consider some of the suggestions tendered to make your dog "want' to get up on the training table. My guys all want to get up there because they know it is where they get stroked and handled and made to feel special.

I also understand that it is an extra step, but there are times, especially when the dog is very young, when that extra step means that the sitaution is "isolated" from the rest of the pup's reality and what goes on on the training bench is "separate" from the rest of the pup's world.

Put another way...if something goes awry on the training bench, you can always move to the ground and forget the bench for that particular thing. If the same thing happens on the ground...you got nowhere to go.

I am not a professional trainer and I only train one, or at most, two pups at a time. An extra step is well worth it to me to avoid a potentially difficult situation which I might not have a lot of experience dealing with and cause even more damage trying to correct.I t is very nice for an amateur like me to have options, so I can avoid trouble instead of having to deal with it head on.

RayG

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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by triplebbirddog » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:09 pm

as an amueter trainer i have to agree that having options and using them to your benefit would only be a plus. Its all bout repetitions with as little of pressure as needed. I took a 2 year old 80lb lab that had been living in kennel with 4 siblings and he was alpha male. I could not control him with out help from bench. It was a huge difference. All are opinions are awesome guys.

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SHORTFAT
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Re: TRAINING TABLE QUESTION

Post by SHORTFAT » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:32 am

Thanks for all of the suggestions! We had a good weekend and are making progress... I'll keep ya posted!
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
- Mark Twain.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Abraham Lincoln

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