DOG LETS DOWN ON POINT WHEN APPROACHED

[Brittowner]

Looking for suggestions on how to remedy this problem. Dog is a 3yr old brittany male. He points staunchly until approached. I am sure this is a result of me coming down on him too hard during training. This is on training pigeons. Not quite sure what his reaction to gamebirds will be this season. I will be running him in an AF trial this weekend so I guess I will find out soon. Any tips would be appreciated.
Steve

[tailcrackin]

Sounds like verbal, or physical pressure. What does he do if you kill him a bird, is he steady for that? Alot of times adding the shotgun shot, or kill, will get them to stand on tip toes. I would quit doing what caused him to let down. You might even be able to walk back to him, without saying a word, and love him up, real good. Its hard to say with out seeing things happen. Thanks Jonesy

[Tall Boy]

Yep you're right, it's most likely your fault. Turn him loose and remind him what it means to be a dog. I would stay away from any trials until you have a hand on the situation, no good can come from it (unless it's the best way to turn him loose with no pressure). You have to go back and put some spirit and fire back in him. Let him knock and get his mouth on some birds. You have to take it to a level of fun that out does the level of unfun you have put on him, and then work him up through the basics again.

[RayGubernat]

That is a pretty sure sign that the dog is feeling pressure.

Have you launched pigeons before you approached? Have you backed out and wated for him to staunch up again. Have you thrown down two or three pigeons after the first one? Have you killed a couple of pigeons for the dog? Have you driven the dog through the birds?
Have you taken him back to the yard and set him up on a bench or table, styled him up and then had an assistant throw pigeons past him from a higding spot while he is on the bench?

Of all of these, probably the most effective medicine is to kill birds for the dog.

Without seeing what the dog is dong it is hard to determine just what is the best way to get him past it. As you can see from the above and the other posters, there are lots of ways to gho about it.

I suggest that you take the dog to a good pro and ask fo their help and advice on how to proceed.

I would not necessarily scratch the dog from the upcoming trial. Sometimes the excitement of competition can cause a dog to reach within itself and pull something out that wasn't there before. What I would do, is to let the dog know that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread and then let the dog go and do what it is going to do. Just let the dog roll and if you say anything, make it positive. He might surprise you. If the dog does lose style, just put the harness on and put the dog up. I would not praise the dog but I would give it a few strokes and let him know you still love him as you put him away.

RayG

[Brittowner]

Thanks for all the replies. Good ideas given. I can work on a lot of the ideas in the short term. I need to get some kill birds for him. I can tell he gets a little bored with the homers I train with, but don't want to kill any of them. I kow he will get out of it, hunting season is coming up. Hopefully the traps will work and I will throw some birds in order to get him ready for this weekend.

[birddogger]

Good advice has been given already. Sounds like maybe too much pigeon work and/or training sessions too long, especially without any birds being shot.

Good luck,
Charlie

[Brittowner]

Got some kill birds at auction last night and killed one after a solid point. Moved a little on the flush, set him back and he retreived to hand. Today I tried to mix it up. Planted a homer and a kill bird. Great staunch point, twice after I missed the bird and relocated him. Second bird (homer) good work, bird flew but not real strongly. I got distracted by the new pup while Ruger was still loose. Called him in and he came back with it in his mouth. Probably gonna have some problems to deal with. Trying to figure out a game plan to prepare for this weekend. Visions of an unbroke dog running amuk during his brace are starting to creep in. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[nooblet]

With all due respect - dont go to the trial. It's not that important. Go for a walk instead. It's not worth putting more pressure on your hunting buddy.

noob

[kninebirddog]

Question when you trained did you pick him up and set him back? I see many dogs that anticipate being swooped up and set back and the more abrupt a person is about this the worse the dogs gets about going down.

I also see this more on dogs that have never been allowed to get the chase out being cued to stop AFTER the bird is in the air then those that have learned to cue to stop

One thing I would try and do is be slower in approach and as soon as the dog changes a muscle to let down STOP right where you are at and do not say a word, let the dog get refocused on the bird before you make another step if the dog wants to take the bird out..then launch the bird if he advances and then cue him to stop after the bird is in the air.

It is kinda like if you take a young kid and introduce him to crayons and a coloring book and every time he starts to draw past the lines and you whack his hand or yell at him what do you think will be going through the kids mind about coloring when you come near. What they are first starting out they need to learn about the paper and the crayons and slowly guide them to want to stay in the lines

Another exercise is how does your dog do when you approach him on a chain gang if he goes down or is jumping around mindlessly either way what you can do if you have the patience to do this is as you turn towards your dog from where ever you are at..wait till he is relaxed standing or still before you make a step towards him only advance towards your dog while he is in a calm manner.spinning around and other mindless things is only letting you know he is trying to be in a rush which here again if he is letting down he is rushing actions in his mind
rush for the bird
rush to be set back
as a handler rush to get to the dog
rush to flush the bird

[snips]

Good advice Knine...I think the less hands on correction on this dog the better. If I make a correction on a dog I like to let the dog go ahead and crowd the bird til it goes, then give the dog a nick to stop..He learns crowding is not the ting to do, and you have not had to put a hand on him...

[Brittowner]

I do set him back when he moves. I have killed a couple of pigeons for him since my first post and the intensity is back in his point. I think it may have just been anticipation of a correction and the recognition of the pigeons and boredom with them. I thought I would have a big problem after he caught that bird, but he seems to be pretty steady. I am a little worried about him in a trial situation. I am hoping he stays broke and maintains intensity. I will work him in a short session tomorrow and I have decided to run him in the walking gundog brace on Sunday. I am just hoping to get around clean. I will let you know how we do and appreciate all of the advice given.
Steve

[Brittowner]

Update

Picked up at 28 min. My boy gave a pretty nice forward race and ran as good or better than the EP he was braced with. At 28 nearing the clubhouse he had a nice solid point. I flushed a poor flying bird directly at him. He took a few steps and was ordered up. His bracemate failed to back and was picked up as well.

I think I need to go back to steady work and evry so often kill a bird for him. I need to enlist the help of a gunner when I do kill a bird for him so that I can correct him immediately if he moves.
Thanks for all of the advice, keep it coming if you have additional suggestions.

[puppiesndog]

Some very good advices have been given here. I think don't push much more to your doggy for anything. just some good morning training and some initial efforts make him a good partner for you.

[kninebirddog]

Glad he sounds like he did pretty good over all but the one thing I can say by how you gave your update........NEVER kick a bird AT your dog.
Doesn't matter the venue when a format has to rely on pen raised birds there will always be those poor flyers.

I wuold get the dog on some good flying birds flying rats are the best for training and work on letting the dog learn how to take the chase out

Part one in the first link describes the method i use to intro the dog to a point of contact to mean stop moving..
http://www.huntsmith.com/articles/the-w ... redux.html

Part 2 explains the Taking the chase out along with other things
http://www.huntsmith.com/articles/the-w ... dux-2.html

This is the method I have had the best success with , where i have been able to get dogs to stand better specially for those walking non flying birds which in the trial format my dogs have to stand that then are asked to retrieve them after they finally fly or what ever it takes to SAFELY finish the work unless a safety is called which then they sent on to hopefully point another

[Tall Boy]

When I correct a dog by picking them up and putting them back I use more of a light jerk/jolt, and only put them back a few inches, no need to put them back to where they started (they get the idea). I also praise when back in the correct spot, I look at it like whoa, point etc... is a place and not just a command. I correct them when in the wrong place, and then praise them once corrected to show them that this is the correct place.