Gun Dog Forum

im new at the trainging thing. ive got a britt thats right at 6 months. what are some tips on teaching whoa. ive heard and read about the whoa board and using a check cord. any suggestions?

Wait till the pup has a season of hunting then teach it. Do not do much in the way of pressure training at that age. You need to concentrate on the manners type training such as leading, healing, house breaking, not jumping and anything else you feel is necessary now.

Ezzy

IMHO As part of obedience I think Whoaing at the door and at the food bowl is okay and what I do.

Also whoa on the leash is okay.

This makes it easier later when you do the formal (dead stop) whoa training for your steadiness work and such, if you go that route.

I would go with Ezzys reply. Hunt the young pup. Once the pup is on the edge of out of control or anxious while pointing you have something to Whoa.

Whoaing at the door and at the food bowl is okay and what I do.

Also whoa on the leash is okay.

This makes it easier later when you do the formal (dead stop) whoa training for your steadiness work and such, if you go that route.

I know alot of you do it this way but it usually creates confusion in the dog when you go to actually whoa the dog at distance. Because the dog is close to the handler at the dish or gate or on the leash at heel, that becomes a safe zone for the dog. When you start to do formal whoa training at distance, lets say starting at 10 yards or so, the dog will come to the handler to be in that zone. That is what he has done since the beginning. Now the handler does not want the dog to be in the zone and the dog will be confused. He doesn`t understand, he has been doing it that way for months or more and now you are changing it up on him. The handler in this case needs to pick up the dog and put him back where he should have stopped. The dog will start to get low and come to you when you whoa him and is feeling the pressure. Not Good.
It is much easier to just teach the dog Whoa when he is ready. There will be much less confusion and less pressure. resulting in a dog that looks good on whoa, plus the dog will learn what Whoa means in a fraction of the time.
Personally I use a barrel. If I have a good dog that is clean and the owner hasn`t taught the whoa at heel, I can whoa that
dog on the ground at 10 yards or more in less than 30 minutes. Mush easier for the dog to understand because I am not changing things on the dog.

V-Man very good point.... I see that happen all the time. What is yor suggestion for fixing a dog that was taught to WHOA at the side?

With all due respect, Never has happened to any of mine and I get through the door and don''t have the dogs busting in on the food. In other words they have some manners. Just like all training you tranistion. Even when you start whoa training formally you have the dog at the whoa post, on the barrel, the table heel and whoa drills, place boards, on the check cord, etc. Maybe I am lucky but I don't think so.

Rick

Ruffshooter wrote:With all due respect, Never has happened to any of mine and I get through the door and don''t have the dogs busting in on the food. In other words they have some manners. Just like all training you tranistion. Even when you start whoa training formally you have the dog at the whoa post, on the barrel, the table heel and whoa drills, place boards, on the check cord, etc. Maybe I am lucky but I don't think so.

Rick

Ditto.

Charlie

thanks i appreciate the feedback. one of my main issues is living in georgia there isnt much wild quail roaming around on public land. have you tried these methods on pin birds?

Sure have

Ezzy

With all due respect, Never has happened to any of mine and I get through the door and don''t have the dogs busting in on the food. In other words they have some manners. Just like all training you tranistion. Even when you start whoa training formally you have the dog at the whoa post, on the barrel, the table heel and whoa drills, place boards, on the check cord, etc. Maybe I am lucky but I don't think so.

I can go through doors and not have the dog bust through to get the food with a simple sit.{obedience} I Don`t use whoa needlessly.
You may have success with your method and that is good. But I see way too many handlers misuse the whoa command. The dog is ALWAYS near them. What they really want is the dog to HEEL, but they use whoa.
If you teach a dog Heel and he heels off leash and the dog is 10 yards away and you command HEEL, what will the dog do? He will come to your side and heel. Just as we want.{hopefully}
If you teach a dog WHoa from the heel position and he is 10 yards away and you command WHOA, what will the dog do? He will come to your side and whoa. Just what you have taught, but you do not want that, so here comes pressure and confusion.
I am sure you are having success with your method. But the amount of time involved to get the dog to whoa at 50 plus yards is going be much greater and the pressures will also be more than needed. I don`t have that kind of time.
Take somebody else s dog and teach whoa from heel then transition it out to place boards or whoa posts and see how long it takes to get the dog to whoa at 50 plus yards reliably. I will get the same thing done in a fraction of the time.
I have fixed many, many dogs that when commanded WHOA, come to me simply because the owners taught whoa at heel on leash or misused the command. Unfortunately.

Agree with Ruffshooter. Have always started light training on whoa. Many time's using it at the food bowl before a dog eats as one method. Also use feeding time to start "here" training. Don't teach my dogs to sit. ( Unless they are in the house watching football...then they do it on their own)..

I have always taught WHO at heel on leash and it has always worked well for me.

Charlie

I too am "just a pup" in this training thing. Have had other dogs and know about general obediance but the bird dog training is new. I have a 6 month old setter who's best command right now is whoa. She is pretty solid on come and getting there on heel but the whoa command seemed to be the one she caught onto the fastest. I saw this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYCTo_o3WSM , and it made it look so easy and with such little pressure I just had to try it. Three or so trips to the whoa post and I was shocked. I think it helps that the dog can only do the right thing so it makes understanding the command much easier. I also use it at the door and even when my folks or mother in law come over to stop and exited dog from knocking them over. The big test was when she slipped out of a friends fence in the woods and was headed out to explore, come slowed her down (as I said "pretty" solid on that one) whoa stopped her. The way I see it whoa is simply stay but do so on your feet.

My suggestion is forget doing Whoa with this pup...Teach Here and let that guy grow up some and learn to hunt and point birds...

birdhuntw/brittanys -

Let me first define my terms. Whoa to me is an obedience command. It means(to my dogs):

STOP...instantly...and do not move so much as a toenail until I release you.

WHOA has(at least initially) absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with birds.

I teach whoa in conjunction with heel after the manner of Paul Long in his book "Training Pointing Dogs". Basically I use a pigging string(poor man's Smith Wonder lead) and heel the dog in the yard. When I walk the dog heels... when I stop the dog stops or whoas. Repeat as necessary. No verbal commands are necessary or desirable. The dog should key off your movements, going with you, turning with you and stopping with you.

Once the dog is fairly good at the heel/whoa drill, I introduce the extended hand "STOP" signal, again silently. I progress to where I can heel the dog to a spot, stop the dog, give it the hand ""stop" signal and then walk away from the dog...a step at firxt, then two steps , then walk out front, and then simulate a flush, etc.

Once the dog is fairluy good at standing there while you walk around in front of it, you can let the dogrun loose and then put your hand up in the "STOP" signal configuration(with or without a verbal whoa) and the dog should stop short, wherever it is...and grow roots.

Once the dog is mature enough to begin the breaking process(another subject entirely) I feel that the early heel/whoa drills done in the yard make it easier for the dog to transition to pointing and holding birds.

Anyway, that is what I try to do with mine.

RayG

I am no expert but speak from my own expereince. I have a 5 month old britt/gsp pup that I taught whoa when he was about 3 months, not a very strict whoa but whoa none the less. As I began introducing him to live birds in the field I would give him the whoa command after he established point. This teaches him that what he is doing is exactly what I want him to do (whoa means stop) and he is doing it on his own. Let me just say, not bragging, but... he is almost steady to wing and shot (I was not if I wanted him to be so I held him on one flush then gave him the retrieve, after that he held his own flush (most of the time) without me holding him back). So, moral of my story is, as I have posted in other threads, if he can handle learning a new behavior, then by all means teach it to him. If I can get a video one day I will post so people can see that some of these dogs are much brighter then we think.

[quote="RayGubernat"]birdhuntw/brittanys -

Let me first define my terms. Whoa to me is an obedience command. It means(to my dogs):

STOP...instantly...and do not move so much as a toenail until I release you.

WHOA has(at least initially) absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with birds.

I teach whoa in conjunction with heel after the manner of Paul Long in his book "Training Pointing Dogs". Basically I use a pigging string(poor man's Smith Wonder lead) and heel the dog in the yard. When I walk the dog heels... when I stop the dog stops or whoas. Repeat as necessary. No verbal commands are necessary or desirable. The dog should key off your movements, going with you, turning with you and stopping with you.

Once the dog is fairly good at the heel/whoa drill, I introduce the extended hand "STOP" signal, again silently. I progress to where I can heel the dog to a spot, stop the dog, give it the hand ""stop" signal and then walk away from the dog...a step at firxt, then two steps , then walk out front, and then simulate a flush, etc.

Once the dog is fairluy good at standing there while you walk around in front of it, you can let the dogrun loose and then put your hand up in the "STOP" signal configuration(with or without a verbal whoa) and the dog should stop short, wherever it is...and grow roots.

Once the dog is mature enough to begin the breaking process(another subject entirely) I feel that the early heel/whoa drills done in the yard make it easier for the dog to transition to pointing and holding birds.

Anyway, that is what I try to do with mine.

Well put Ray. This is pretty much the way I have always done it, with the exception that I do use a verbal command in the process.

Charlie

Charlie -

I also overlay a verbal "whoa" but it is much closer to the time when the dog is ready to be steadied to wing and shot. When I overlay it, the dog will already whoa off the lead and stop dead with a hand signal(well most of the time ) .

I aim for perfection, but often have to work with less. Just ask my wife!!

That darn word sneaks in there somehow, doesn't it??


RayG

BrittGSP818 wrote:I am no expert but speak from my own expereince. I have a 5 month old britt/gsp pup that I taught whoa when he was about 3 months, not a very strict whoa but whoa none the less. As I began introducing him to live birds in the field I would give him the whoa command after he established point. This teaches him that what he is doing is exactly what I want him to do (whoa means stop) and he is doing it on his own. Let me just say, not bragging, but... he is almost steady to wing and shot (I was not if I wanted him to be so I held him on one flush then gave him the retrieve, after that he held his own flush (most of the time) without me holding him back). So, moral of my story is, as I have posted in other threads, if he can handle learning a new behavior, then by all means teach it to him. If I can get a video one day I will post so people can see that some of these dogs are much brighter then we think.

It sounds as though you may have a special puppy. Most of the people on here will tell you not to use the whoa command around birds, but I always have. I guess it all boils down to what works best for you and your dog.

Charlie

That darn word sneaks in there somehow, doesn't it??

It sure does, for me anyway.

Charlie

It sounds as though you may have a special puppy. Most of the people on here will tell you not to use the whoa command around birds, but I always have. I guess it all boils down to what works best for you and your dog.

Charlie[/quote]


I am sure I do, he never seizes to amaze me. I was going to hold off on the whoa command, but after I saw how well and quick he picked up the stay command I figured he would be ready for whoa so I gave it a try. I have only gone over the whoa routine only a few times, he just picks things up very quickly. I let him dictate the speed and amount I train him. If I see he is showing hestitation or any other effects of too much pressure, I would definately pull back or stop. So far, he is doing wonderful. I am sure if he was in the hands of a professional he would be a fantastic bird dog (not that he isnt ).