gun shy??

[cheetome]

Ok I'm no pro by any means but I have succesfuly trained around ten personal dogs and conditioned them all to the gun and have never had any of them turn out gun shy. However the current pup I'm working with seems to be headed that way. I was out doing the wing clipped bird and having an assistant fire the blank when I raised my hand. Things progressed as I expected the dog showed no care to the noise and we moved along all the way to the 12 gauge she was doing great until one chase and all of a sudden she stopped and acted a little freaked out. I have not shot around her since. have taken her out to just have fun in the field and to chase wing clipped birds and build up her desire. I was out the other day and she was chasing a bird I launched and something fell in the back of the truck and she just stopped the chase and looked around. She doesn't bolt for me or the truck and still loves birds. My question is what do I do from here I don't want to ruin this dog. I have never experienced this problem before and don't know what to do from here. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The timing of the shot that freaked her a bit was not poorly timed or right over her, happened at between 50 and 75 yrds.

[snips]

So how old is this pup?

[adogslife]

Cap gun to 12 gauge in the same session? You moved to fast.

[QuailHollow]

We have poultry and game birds in our back yard. They way I started my dogs on 'gun fire' is by actually exposing them the 'construction' sounds when we work on the coop(s).

We are currently siding our second coop - and using metal siding. Nail gun against metal siding panels makes a pretty good 'crack' noise. I usually let my dogs run free on the property while we are working outside, and when the nail gun cracks, the pigeons on top take flight and the dogs just associate - freedom, birds, and loud noise.

We just shot some of our 30-or-so annoying pigeons over my 4 month old EP. He is retrieving birds to hand. He hears the 'crack'. He gets excited.

[live4point]

Right now the dog is gun soft,not gun shy,but it can get gunshy real quick--If your dog is kenneled outside,have your cap pistol by your side,not up in the air to make a big deal of it,and pop one off on your way to the dogs kennel as your dog sees you coming.Hopefully he will be exited enough to see you he wont think much of the sound.I would do this every day for a while.Progress on to the field,just take him for a walk.When you can tell he has his mind on something,pop the cap pistol off again.Don't act like it's any big deal,just keep strolling along while watching for the dogs reaction out of the corner of your eye.As this progresses move up to a bigger gun and do the same.Here is where another dog can help you a lot also.Take a dog that you know the gun doesn't bother along for your walk.When the 2 dogs are close together,fire a shot.Your dog will be able to see that it didn't worry the other dog,and this can go a long ways to help.Just take it slow and easy,use your head. and progress as you see the time is right to go to the next step.

[adogslife]

If your dog is kenneled outside,have your cap pistol by your side,not up in the air to make a big deal of it,and pop one off on your way to the dogs kennel as your dog sees you coming.Hopefully he will be exited enough to see you he wont think much of the sound.I would do this every day for a while.

Hope is not a plan. This sounds like a bad idea.
The kennel provides a hiding place and can create a bolting issue.

[live4point]

If your dog is kenneled outside,have your cap pistol by your side,not up in the air to make a big deal of it,and pop one off on your way to the dogs kennel as your dog sees you coming.Hopefully he will be exited enough to see you he wont think much of the sound.I would do this every day for a while.

Hope is not a plan. This sounds like a bad idea.
The kennel provides a hiding place and can create a bolting issue.

I have trained every dog I have owned this way,it has never failed.What you are doing is associating the gun with something the dog likes,which is you hopefully.If the dog doesn't like you,you may have a problem then.

[bhairhoger]

I have trained every dog I have owned this way,it has never failed.What you are doing is associating the gun with something the dog likes,which is you hopefully.If the dog doesn't like you,you may have a problem then.

Or the dog could freak out because of the shot and associate the sound with you. This could then cause the dog to shut down when ever it sees you coming. It might have worked for you but I would never try it.

[live4point]

Just when exactly are you going to use a gun then?As with any training for the gun,if I thought it was bothering the dog I would try something else.Any dog I have ever owned was paws up on the kennel door and exited to see me as it sees me coming,the cap pistol never bothered a one of them.Also,if you go back and read the guys post,he said the cap pistol never bothered the dog in the first place,it was the 12 gauge.At this stage you are just exposing the dog to a little more repetive bang by popping one off on the way to the kennel.

[bhairhoger]

Hey if that is your way of doing it fine. All I said was if the dog is gun sensitive I wouldn't try it.

[adogslife]

Just when exactly are you going to use a gun then?

Unbelievable.

[QuailHollow]

Ok I'm no pro by any means but I have succesfuly trained around ten personal dogs and conditioned them all to the gun and have never had any of them turn out gun shy. However the current pup I'm working with seems to be headed that way. I was out doing the wing clipped bird and having an assistant fire the blank when I raised my hand. Things progressed as I expected the dog showed no care to the noise and we moved along all the way to the 12 gauge she was doing great until one chase and all of a sudden she stopped and acted a little freaked out. I have not shot around her since. have taken her out to just have fun in the field and to chase wing clipped birds and build up her desire. I was out the other day and she was chasing a bird I launched and something fell in the back of the truck and she just stopped the chase and looked around. She doesn't bolt for me or the truck and still loves birds. My question is what do I do from here I don't want to ruin this dog. I have never experienced this problem before and don't know what to do from here. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The timing of the shot that freaked her a bit was not poorly timed or right over her, happened at between 50 and 75 yrds.

I think sometimes we get our emotions wrapped up in outcome-oriented thinking. I would continue to progress with this dog, the same way you have with all the other dogs before. If she does not make the cut, and does become shy, then fundamentally she is not going to be the dog for you. Do not alter your patterns for one dog. You need to set the bar of expectation, and those that can't make the cut do not get excuses made for them. If she is soft, she isn't the right dog. Place her as a companion animal and be done with it.

That probably isn't what you want to hear, and it is not a popular vantage point, but it is how I would handle this situation. Given that you are being reasonable, and I believe you are - The dog should adapt to my style of training. Not the other way around.

[adogslife]

Cookie-cutter approach to dog traning will flunk many a dog
Adapt the training to the dog not the dog to the training.

[live4point]

Just when exactly are you going to use a gun then?

Unbelievable.

Tell me whats unbelievable.I have fooled with many gun shy dogs.My buddy and I used to work with peoples washed up bird dogs,just because we enjoyed the challenge and working with dogs,I have seen some real bad cases.Do you want to start shooting when the dog sees birds?You can make a soft dog bird shy that way.I posed the question as to where this gun training session with the problem dog is going to take place,because I have been there and done that.I have seen people try and get a dog used to the gun in the field,and watched that dog run to a fence row and lay down.I have also seen them run back under the truck.I have also saw them start blinking birds.Training young dogs with a cap pistol around the kennel has been used by many people for many years.I have always done it at feeding time,the young dog may take a little notice of the shot,but then gets a food reward and also gets to see you.I have never raised a gun shy pup.

[adogslife]

You have also seen many more poor trainers and messed up dogs than I have.

Why is that?

[live4point]

Just like I said,we would take peoples washed up bird dogs and try and fix them.Most of these dogs were not screwed up by trainers.Most were screwed up by the owner hunter.Now that you have insinuated everything I have done is wrong,I am really starting to feel bad.Don't know how in the heck me and my dogs have made it all this time.Why don't you tell us how to fix this dog?

[adogslife]

I don't know enough about the dog or the situation.

I say the pace was to fast, not enough time between intro's and shotgun was fired to close to the puppy and the pup was not engaged in high enough prey drive. Possibly the puppy was too young.

I say this pup probably doesn't have a real issue with the gun. Got nervous, that's all.

[live4point]

I don't know enough about the dog or the situation.

I say the pace was to fast, not enough time between intro's and shotgun was fired to close to the puppy and the pup was not engaged in high enough prey drive. Possibly the puppy was too young.

I say this pup probably doesn't have a real issue with the gun. Got nervous, that's all.

Sounds reasonable to me.Wouldn't you be pretty cautious about shooting around birds right now though.I would want to get the dog more comfortable to the gun away from birds.Sure don't want to make a dog bird shy.

[BlackGWP]

to: adogslife

Why is it that you have nitpicked every post in this thread but you have not offered one single bit of advice to the original poster? Does it pet your ego to go to an online forum and attempt to belittle others?
I have read posts on this board for quite some time and have learned a lot. I thank those of you who take your time to offer constructive advice for those less knowledgeable.

I realize this is my first post on this board and I have not yet earned any respect around these parts, but you really got under my skin with your constant put downs and sarcasm without offering anything constructive.

Good day,




{edited}

[snips]

This guy has never answered me....Must realize this pup ws too young and better back off....What works for many dogs obviously does not work for all...Dog training is definetly not cookie cutter......

[cheetome]

This pup is just short of 7 months old. Sorry it took so long to give a reply.

[cheetome]

ok I backed up in the gun process, went back to the starter pistol shooting at 150yrds down to 75yrd. no reaction from pup at all. I only shot three times and called it good at that. I plan to repeat next time out and if the results are the same I will move a bit closer than 75yrds but I will take it very slow from hear and not make any more mistakes by moving too fast.

[MillerClemsonHD]

Why not work the pup a few times without the gun? There are a 100 ways to introduce the gun and work on bringing a gun around the dog. Let the pup figure out the bird game a little more. Clap your hands, yell bang whatever or just let the pup learn about birds. Then once you get a little further on the birds go back to square one and introduce the gun.

[adogslife]

blackGWP,
I answered in my previous post I could not offer suggstions for this situation not knowing any info.
live4points last post to me was Friday. I have a life.

[ArcticRetrievers]

As for the original posters question I would Back up a Few steps Go Back to your Training Pistol for a week, but use it with more frequency, same with the shotgun, If you can get you hands on a 20G (you probably have one) and step up to that in between. some of the other posters said Keep going like you have been, some said use other training techniques, it really is up to you, and there is not ever a Guarantee that she wont go gunshy.

I had a VERY gunshy GWP who with the right training Location and the right training worked out. I just hunted Duck and grouse over her on Sunday. Alot of it was excitement. I have both Labs and Gwps and my Labs get Very excited at gunfire, so we went out about 40 yards and worked with our Retrieve-R-Trainer (Blank Load and Retrieve). She saw how amped all of the other dogs got, and then I had a Friend slowly walk her up to me, this girl LOVES to retrieve so her bumper flying did it for her. we also found a nice spot to train on land right next to the Range, so during birds, and bumpers, swimming she was constantly exposed to Multiple gunshots. This is a dog that would run under the truck at a gunshot 200 yards away. It can be done!

One thing, and the most important thing to remember is that the BEST trainers mould their methods to their dogs to get the BEST dogs. dont hesitate to change it up.

[BlackGWP]

I agree, start with lower decibel further away and increased frequeancy, I would not hesitate to go even softer than a starting pistol, they can be pretty darned lound!!! Nightly I pop plastic shopping bags in the kitchen while the pup is on his bed chewing on "stuff". He doesn't hardly even blink now when a random pop goes off. If he freaked out, I would back off some. My goal is to build up to the gun shot without the dog ever realizing that we built up to anything. Guns will be intorduced from a few hunder yards away and slowly worked closer. Before long he will associate the pop of a gun with fun. . . .not fear.