blinking Backs

Post Reply
User avatar
Chukar12
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:20 pm
Location: Northern California

blinking Backs

Post by Chukar12 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:05 pm

I have a 20 month old Britt that has decided he is a "selective backer" On my home grounds and with the auto backer he is virtually perfect. There has always been a bird launched during backing drills. However, while on horseback where he has some room he will avert his gaze and pretend a dog on point doesn't exist and keep rolling. I have been stimulating to whoa when I can be sure of my timing. Other suggestions or theories on cause are appreciated.

Thanks, Joe

User avatar
birddogger
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3776
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: Bunker Hill, IL.

Re: blinking Backs

Post by birddogger » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:35 pm

Chukar12 wrote:I have a 20 month old Britt that has decided he is a "selective backer" On my home grounds and with the auto backer he is virtually perfect. There has always been a bird launched during backing drills. However, while on horseback where he has some room he will avert his gaze and pretend a dog on point doesn't exist and keep rolling. I have been stimulating to whoa when I can be sure of my timing. Other suggestions or theories on cause are appreciated.

Thanks, Joe
One thing to try would be to work with a dog that is reliably steady on point. Plant some birds and let the steady dog get the point. Bring your dog up and whoa him up to the back if you have to. Have a partner to flush and shoot the bird while keeping his dog steady. Release your dog and let him get the retrieve. Do this a few times. He gets the reward for backing. No expert here, but that is what I would try.

Good luck,
Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

Neil
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3187
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:46 pm
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: blinking Backs

Post by Neil » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:23 pm

Not sure I see the problem, if he does not interfere with the pointing dog and is staunch, I let him go find his own bird.

No dog ever won a field trial standing around watching another dog point. And in hunting, I guess it is pretty enough, but I would just as soon he go on.

Now it is true dogs that hate to back, will sometimes steal point, that I will not abide.

But if he is so good at blinking the back you are not sure, he understands not to interfere.

Neil

User avatar
hustonmc
Rank: Champion
Posts: 377
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:25 pm
Location: Eastern, OR

Re: blinking Backs

Post by hustonmc » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:55 pm

birddogger wrote:
Chukar12 wrote:I have a 20 month old Britt that has decided he is a "selective backer" On my home grounds and with the auto backer he is virtually perfect. There has always been a bird launched during backing drills. However, while on horseback where he has some room he will avert his gaze and pretend a dog on point doesn't exist and keep rolling. I have been stimulating to whoa when I can be sure of my timing. Other suggestions or theories on cause are appreciated.

Thanks, Joe
One thing to try would be to work with a dog that is reliably steady on point. Plant some birds and let the steady dog get the point. Bring your dog up and whoa him up to the back if you have to. Have a partner to flush and shoot the bird while keeping his dog steady. Release your dog and let him get the retrieve. Do this a few times. He gets the reward for backing. No expert here, but that is what I would try.

Good luck,
Charlie
Man oh man I wish it was that easy. If they dog backs when your close, the repetition and backing tricks work......if your close. Being far away throws a wrench into things. Most dogs get the idea of backing, and back, close, far, yo name it. Unfortunatley there isn't a pharagraph out of a book for this one, hence the reason not that many responses :) The problem with this situation is we all know you can't make a correction if the dog doesn't make a mistake and any correction is pointless, or harmful if done at the wrong time. If the dog backs reliably when your there popping birds in launcher, letting them retrieve, "whoaing" them, surprising them with pop up backing dogs you name it won't work because well....................the dogs doing it allready, can't train if they don't make a mistake. And they aren't making mistakes close, you'd think that repition would sink in, frankly some dogs it just doesn't , you have to give them something different. So people will say set the situation up far away...............problem. Being 150yds away you never really truly know if the dog saw the backing dog. You can guess the dog did and if the dog is conditioned to whoa on stimulation go that route........but does the dog know why it's being corrected, are you really sure the dog saw the pointing dog, who knows? Same with popping a bird, that dog may never know it did anything wrong, because it never saw the dog, just a wild flush. Another situation is have a training partner set up a situatuion with a dog on point and the transmitter, when the dog comes in give the stimulation the instant the dog notices the backing dog and refuses to back, or pop birds, whatever you happen to use.. I've seen the problem with this is the dog finding the partner before he sees the dog, you know a 200lb person gives off alot more scent then a tiny bird. Then guess what, they make a nice back because someone is there close. The latter is the most likely way, but finding someone to handle your dog, or you trust to have the timing to stimulate is tough, real tough. Not being found is a 50/50 chance, so you end up with an un-efficent training outing. Either way it takes repetition repetition, repetition. I wish you luck, I haven't been able to cure it either. This one takes 2 people and getting others together for all that repetitin just hasn't been easy. Let me know if you find something that works.

User avatar
Chukar12
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:20 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: blinking Backs

Post by Chukar12 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:46 pm

Thanks for the responses...there are a couple of things to try here. I have not let him do any retrieving but I suppose I can accomplish the same thing by bringing a bird back and dropping it for him. Neil you do make a good point in that I believe he is good enough at it to keep from being picked up, but i worry the next step is, as you have said, stealing point. Well...it is something to keep me from getting bored

User avatar
phermes1
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1510
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:15 pm
Location: Tampa, Fl

Re: blinking Backs

Post by phermes1 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:48 am

I have a similar situation with one of my girls. If I'm not around, she usually blinks the back, which I can handle as it beats what she used to do, and that's steal point.

I've been really careful with correcting her for blinking as sometimes it's very hard to know if she actually saw the pointing dog or not. I've seen people try too hard to fix that problem, and what happened was they tended to be too quick on the button, corrected the dog way too much, half the time the dog didn't know what it was getting corrected for, and ultimately it became an unpleasant experience for the dog that it learned nothing from. It started making the dog shut down.
http://www.socovs.com
DC AFC Valley Hunter's Southern Comfort CD MH NA NAJ, UT Prize II, "Shooter"
DC GCH Lagniappe's Chosen One MH, "Buffy"
DC AFC SoCo's Enchanted One JH, "TomBoy"
CH SoCo's Independence Day SH, "Patriot"
SoCo's Twist of Fate JH, "Emma Jane"

User avatar
AZ Brittany Guy
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1412
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:00 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: blinking Backs

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:02 am

You mentioned that you always train at the same place. I had the same problem but I started to take the dogs to different places to train each time I went out. Dog's are place oriented and they need to know they are expected to comply anywere at anytime.

User avatar
Ridge-Point
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:05 am
Location: Amity Oregon

Re: blinking Backs

Post by Ridge-Point » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:22 am

Give him a big chunk of dried liver after every succesfull back.

User avatar
birddogger
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3776
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: Bunker Hill, IL.

Re: blinking Backs

Post by birddogger » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:52 pm

Man oh man I wish it was that easy. If they dog backs when your close, the repetition and backing tricks work......if your close. Being far away throws a wrench into things. Most dogs get the idea of backing, and back, close, far, yo name it. Unfortunatley there isn't a pharagraph out of a book for this one, hence the reason not that many responses The problem with this situation is we all know you can't make a correction if the dog doesn't make a mistake and any correction is pointless, or harmful if done at the wrong time. If the dog backs reliably when your there popping birds in launcher, letting them retrieve, "whoaing" them, surprising them with pop up backing dogs you name it won't work because well....................the dogs doing it allready, can't train if they don't make a mistake. And they aren't making mistakes close, you'd think that repition would sink in, frankly some dogs it just doesn't , you have to give them something different. So people will say set the situation up far away...............problem. Being 150yds away you never really truly know if the dog saw the backing dog. You can guess the dog did and if the dog is conditioned to whoa on stimulation go that route........but does the dog know why it's being corrected, are you really sure the dog saw the pointing dog, who knows? Same with popping a bird, that dog may never know it did anything wrong, because it never saw the dog, just a wild flush. Another situation is have a training partner set up a situatuion with a dog on point and the transmitter, when the dog comes in give the stimulation the instant the dog notices the backing dog and refuses to back, or pop birds, whatever you happen to use.. I've seen the problem with this is the dog finding the partner before he sees the dog, you know a 200lb person gives off alot more scent then a tiny bird. Then guess what, they make a nice back because someone is there close. The latter is the most likely way, but finding someone to handle your dog, or you trust to have the timing to stimulate is tough, real tough. Not being found is a 50/50 chance, so you end up with an un-efficent training outing. Either way it takes repetition repetition, repetition. I wish you luck, I haven't been able to cure it either. This one takes 2 people and getting others together for all that repetitin just hasn't been easy. Let me know if you find something that works.
Well, I tried. :lol: :lol:

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

Post Reply