E-collar help! Long story but how do I re-introduce?!?!

[mooner]

Hello,

I have an 11 month French Britt. Have introduced birds and she is very birdy and she is quite good with obedience. Have her trained for an invisible fence at home and at the cabin and she respects it and very rarely tests it. When I started with the invisible fence she got very cautious at first until she figured out where the boundaries were. Because of her cautiousness, I worked on getting her out running in fields and ditches a lot to increase her confidence and all was well.

Just started with the e-collar over the weekend on low constant stim method working with "here" command. She was appearing to get it until I took aff the check cord (big mistake) tried to venture into the woods to see if we could find a few grouse. She put on the brakes and would not follow me into the woods. I didn't connect the dots right away and kept the low stim on while calling here. She turned tail and ran away from me! Wanting to be consistent and not let her think she could get away from it, I cranked it up a notch, she yelped and kept on running. Finally I got it through my thick scull that she was attributing the stimulation with the woods, as my invisible fence is set up on the edge of the woods both at home and at the cabin.

I shut off the collar and decided we were definitely done for the day with that and put her back on the check cord and tried to venture into the woods. She resisted a bit but followed and once we were in the woods she would not leave my side presumably to avoid being shocked. Throughout the weekend we got in the woods a few more times just to have fun and she seemed to get over her fear and was ranging out on her own eventually (whew! that had me worried).

How do I reintroduce the e-collar without wrecking her. I am thinking I will go with one lower stim setting than she noticed when first evaluating (TT Pro 100), but I am not sure where to introduce. Definitely not in the woods. Maybe a field as she is comfortable there, but I don't want her to have the same fear of a field that she had for the woods. I am worried if I try the yard it will confuse her with the invisible fence. The house?

Do I need to introduce the e-collar with a command other than "here" now?

Anyone want to buy a collar? Just kidding (kinda), but I would rather go without than shut her down.

Sorry for the long winded-ness, but I wanted to be complete.

Thanks,

Andy

[1114]

I'm certainly no pro, but it sounds like she doesn't have a clear grasp on what you want her to do in order to stop the stimulation. The e-collar really only works when the dog knows 100% what's expected of it and how to make the stimulation stop. If not, the result is panic and, in your instance, the dog bolted. The invisible fence thing complicates matters, as I'm not sure how you'd differentiate when it's OK to leave the yard vs. not OK. I'm sure someone far more experienced than I will chime in with better/additional input, but if I were you, I'd back up to working on "here" with the check cord and progress slowly from there at HER speed...

[gonehuntin']

The collar program is an involved one. The collar simply reinforces and until the dog is solid on all commands, cannot be used. What you experienced was the dog "bolting" from you, now you will have to "debolt" her. First things first though. Let her wear the collar, don't use it on her, and train her on all her basic commands. Then start over and introduce it properly.

[kninebirddog]

this is a link to how I use view and introduce the E-Collar

UNDERSTANDING THE E COLLAR

[Sprig]

The collar program is an involved one. The collar simply reinforces and until the dog is solid on all commands, cannot be used. What you experienced was the dog "bolting" from you, now you will have to "debolt" her. First things first though. Let her wear the collar, don't use it on her, and train her on all her basic commands. Then start over and introduce it properly.

+1

[mooner]

Regarding the Electronic fence and leaving the yard. She has come to understand that it is fine to leave the yard if she is with me on a leash. She also is pretty "bleep" solid on commands. I have read up on how to use an e-collar and have the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish DVD's that I have been following.

I understand the biggest problem was with me, in that I thought she had an understanding of what I wanted her to do and how to shut off the stim. I clearly rushed things too much.

Maybe I am not emphasizing how much this shut her down. A very happy go lucky dog that loves to run through the woods was afraid to venture off for fear of shock. She clearly had a major adverse reaction to the collar. I am pretty sure I understand this dog and I am sure that the next time she experiences the collar she is going to be scared and confused regardless of how low the stimulation is.

My question really is how can I get back to square 1. Does anybody have experiences with a dog that was initially very sensitive to an e collar and it shut them down?

[kninebirddog]

If you scroll over the understanding the E collar under my last post you will see it is actually a link and takes you to where it explains some about the steps I use

and Yes this very method helped get a few dogs that had an adverse reaction to the e fence and dogs that were not introduced to the collar properly...It coincides with what gonehunting also has stated the e collar is to help MAINTAIN commands known and a method of how to get there

Thing one has to bare in mind the E fence is a higher amount of stimulation it is designed to get a reaction

The e collar specially the newer models If one goes through the steps teaching cues that is what the e collar can become ..like a cue from a lead where a dog can respond to

Many of my young dogs go through snake avoidance and the first time they get an E collar on is for avoidance training ..Thing is the shock they get is directly related to the snake not to the e collar and they have all gone on to Responding to the e collar just fine again it is because of the method I lay out for them and how I use the e collar and it all starts with boring yard work

[mooner]

Thanks so much for elaborating knine,

I understand where you are going with this now. Sounds like I need to change the training method to represent the tap of the check cord. I was stuck on the continuous stim until the dog learns to shut it off. Obviously my method with that had little to be desired, at least in execution.

It sure is nice to have people to turn to when problems like this arise. No doubt I would have been looking at heading down the same path I had been previously going down and battling uphill. Hopefully that hill is smaller now.

Also nice to know that this problem is probably not as unique as I thought it was.