From Blinking to outright shutdown

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vagabonder
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From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by vagabonder » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:21 pm

So my 1 ½ yr old Griff just finished her JH title this past weekend. Next week is my annual trip to SD chasing pheasants. I felt her training had progressed well enough I planned on taking her (at least that was the plan). I have been training with my local NAVDHA chapter as much as possible and finally got her whoa and FF down. About a month ago I began shooting chuckars over her in preparation for the SD hunt and all was fine. Last week, she blinked a bird that was in the launcher so I worked her back around and then she pointed, held steady to shot and did a quick retrieve. Took her out twice this week and she blinked every bird the first time and her points were getting weaker (more of a stop than anything else). The HT this past weekend was nothing unusual although I got the impression she may have been blinking there a few times but she did have 3 points. The HT the week before she did have a quail flush into her face. I have shot around her all summer long with no problems but the other day she ran back about 10 yards and sat down when the trap was sprung and I shot (she did fetch when I gave the command). Today I placed a bird without the trap and she blinked it. I kicked the bird out and it ran 5 yards into a bush. She refused to fetch(she could see bird standing there) and just sat down (no shot was fired but gun was present). After I chased the bird out of the bush , I had her track and she took off after the bird, it flew off. We worked the area the bird flew to and she found it down a rabbit hole. I ended the session right there with praise for finding the bird.

So that’s the story, my dilemma is should I still take her to SD? I had only planned on using her on hedgerows and smaller CRP’s. Would it be detrimental to her long term training.
Would it be worthwhile to have her on leash and hang back 50 yards from the other hunters or tied out overlooking the field so she could see what was going on?
What would be the cause of her sudden shut down? Gun sensitivity? Launcher flush fear?
Where to I go from here with her training?

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by kninebirddog » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:37 pm

Yes take her

and sounds like she isn't having any fun in training Got to make it fun and fair
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by volraider » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:52 pm

Is she on a check cord during training sessions?

I would take her to S.D. but I wouldn't put any pressure on her to be broke.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by birddogger » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:56 pm

It sounds to me like you need to stop using the launchers. She may be blinking the launcher. I agree that you need to start hunting her and let her have some fun. She is not having fun and is probably bored with the training and pen raised birds.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by vagabonder » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:37 pm

She is not on checkcord during training, never needed it once she knew not to chase flying birds. Voice and hand signals are all I need with her. Her E-collar has only been used 3 times, all for chasing deer. She listens very well, not at all hardheaded, and doesnt respond well to hollering.

The launcher is new, got it (funny) a month ago.

What are ways to "add fun" to training?

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by KFhunter » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:49 pm

Is she feeling good? Did you take her temp?

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:01 pm

Dogs learn by association, sometimes the association we are trying to give the dog is not what the dog gets. it sounds to me like the dog is associating the bird with something bad perhaps a correction while it was on point . You may have done this unintentionally, and it is probably best to find out what has caused this before you hunt. Every repitition of the wrong thing is a lesson in the wrong thing. Try to change thes situation for the dog ,IE switch out the collar for the check cord or vice versa, change the location where you train. the dog needs to see a differant picture when it goes on point. Also try some point drills with the dog with the wind at its back. Bring the dog in on a bird where he cant smell it tell it to whoa when the dog whoas launch a bird no retrieve no gun shot. The dog is rewarded for whoaing wih the flight of the bird . set up a bunch of launchers one after another and just lead the dog to each one . This will get him excited about birds with out him being able to blink. I would use tethered pidgeons so you can do multiple repititions with the same birds . Keep the launchers at a good distance incase he is afraid of the launchers. If he is good with this do the drill with the wind in his face . Never use the bird in the launcher as a scent bird. Place a locked wing bird 15 yards from the launcher well hidden when the dog goes on point he will point the locked wing . The launcher will be far enough away that it wont scare the dog. Hope this helps good luck.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by vagabonder » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:12 pm

KFhunter wrote:Is she feeling good? Did you take her temp?
She is fine health wise, I have looked at her ears, eating, poop, even checked her pee. Ears were clean, she eats regular, runs around outside normal ( which means straight for the bird pen and then after chipmunks), full of energy. Her heat cycle ended a month ago so her hormone levels should be back to normal. Her temp (ear) was 100.2 F.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:04 pm

Take her hunting and forget the training. She needs to get in a field and find something on her own and chase it if she wants. Forget the collar, CC and the voice commands as much as possible. Sounds like you have overtrained a softer dog that is quite young and have neglected doing anything she likes. Probably not a big problem if you take care of it now and you can worry about training next year. She is a big pup and will mature into a hunting dog in a year or so. Griffs tend to be a little slower than most in that way.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by birddog1968 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:15 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Take her hunting and forget the training. She needs to get in a field and find something on her own and chase it if she wants. Forget the collar, CC and the voice commands as much as possible. Sounds like you have overtrained a softer dog that is quite young and have neglected doing anything she likes. Probably not a big problem if you take care of it now and you can worry about training next year. She is a big pup and will mature into a hunting dog in a year or so. Griffs tend to be a little slower than most in that way.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Ruffshooter » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:23 am

How many hunters will be afield in SD with you?
IMO
I would definately take her but you and one or two others only and if they shoot you don't just so she is not overwhelmed by a barage of shooting. Let her have her head, don;t talk to her other than to keep her safe and on the proper property. Follow her let her control the hunt. You just take her to likely spots and let her go, no pressure.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:46 pm

wow I did not know that a dog that is bred to be a bird finding machine would run away from them if it has a temperature. and the way to make the bird dog find and not blink a bird would to be give it more birds in an uncontrolled environment , and the way to solve said problem is to wait till net year and doing what you have been doing will cure the problem you have caused . this makes complete sense to me i stand corrected . By the way i went out with my dog , 2year old setter today he was blinking birds last season. I trained him using these methods. 5birds pointed steady to wing and shot and retrieved to hand.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:08 pm

4dabirds wrote:wow I did not know that a dog that is bred to be a bird finding machine would run away from them if it has a temperature. and the way to make the bird dog find and not blink a bird would to be give it more birds in an uncontrolled environment , and the way to solve said problem is to wait till net year and doing what you have been doing will cure the problem you have caused . this makes complete sense to me i stand corrected . By the way i went out with my dog , 2year old setter today he was blinking birds last season. I trained him using these methods. 5birds pointed steady to wing and shot and retrieved to hand.
Some times if a dog is sick they can kinda shut down...this is specially ones that may not have as strong as desire as some other dogs that will hunt a bird till they drop dead

As for the other reason taking out to hunt...sometimes people get over zealous about training and the dog gets excessively bored and over trained and this is where pen raised birds get blamed for dog problems ..it isn't the bird it is how the training is handled

So by taking the dog hunting this can break up the monotony and bring bad the fun and excitement for the dog Provided the handler lets the dog hunt and not try and control and make that not fun also...I see this a lot...It isn't about just letting them run rampant but it is letting them explore and learn how to be a hunting dog
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:20 pm

4dabirds wrote:wow I did not know that a dog that is bred to be a bird finding machine would run away from them if it has a temperature. and the way to make the bird dog find and not blink a bird would to be give it more birds in an uncontrolled environment , and the way to solve said problem is to wait till net year and doing what you have been doing will cure the problem you have caused . this makes complete sense to me i stand corrected . By the way i went out with my dog , 2year old setter today he was blinking birds last season. I trained him using these methods. 5birds pointed steady to wing and shot and retrieved to hand.
Now this is impressive. We work hard at teaching on this forum and it's nice when someone tells us he learned something. Really proves we are accomplishing our goal of teach the newbes that have problems.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:05 pm

why does a dog blink? and how do you stop a dog from blinking? what caused the blinking in this dog? why would a dog not want to pursue a bird? If you dont know the answer how can you prevent doing the same thing again? when is training hunting and hunting training/ what is the differance? how many repititions of the wrong thing does it take to teach the wrong thing? Is your dog trying to please you or himself. What motivates the dog ? How much of what the dog percieves do you percieve and are they the same. If you correct a dog for not whoaing on a bird does he understand he is being corrected for not whoaing or not whoaing on the bird? If you are hunting with a pointing dog and the objective is to point a bird why would you let the dog chase birds only to expect him to hold point later. Do we train the dog or does the dog train itself?

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by birddog1968 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:32 pm

99 percent of the time dogs blinking is a handlers/trainers fault.....too much pressure.

Is your name Greg 4db
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:36 pm

Some good questions but they have little to do with this thread. But to answer your last one, we do let the dog train it self to point since we can't do that. It is an instinct and our job is to give the dog a chance to use that instinct. You can train manners and such but we breed point. And point is not the same as whoa. I can whoa a dog all day but that doesn't mean it is pointing. As a general rule the more you whoa the less point there will be. Quite a difference between pointing and just stopping. I do want my dogs to show independence and figure out this hunting thing pretty much on their own and I will try to teach them to stay on point while I flush the bird and the less said during the whole procedure the better as normally the dog is not going to be close enough for me to see or it to hear.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Ruffshooter » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:52 am

4Dabirds:
IMO, If I am reading right.
You have gone all around the problem and one of them maybe the reason for the blinking, with a bunch of answers that may work. But Sounds like this guy has worked his dog in a manner that you suggest (up to the problem) to fix it. Maybe not exactly but close. This dog has learned a lot in a year and half of life, but I did not read one place where this dog was ever let to work and learn on its own with no pressure. In other word the light switch is only half way on.

I personally, feel the dog needs some confidence, Independence, no pressure and some fun, to build up its bird desire to and to learn about birds.

A strong desire, foundation of independence, and purpose needs to be not squelched by too much pressure. Some times people are not patient enough because someones dog is doing something mine is not. Some dogs can take the pressure some can't.

Dogs do train, or better said (learn about what they can and can not do to not bump, or bust a bird or hold a bird, with out a word said by us) themselves, to a degree. As Ezzy says we will train the manners and enhance, (hopefully) the dogs natural instincts, to work in our favor.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:57 pm

I think two of the biggest mistakes with new pointing dog trainers is too much talking and over training. Both of these are common mistakes and can cause blinking (I've done it to my dogs). When we are new and enthusiastiac about training we think more is better. It's not. You have to learn when to quit a training session and quit while the dog is in a positive mode. Like Knine said, make it fun and remember if you are getting board, rest assured your dog getting board.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:32 pm

the whole idea of the drill i recomended was to let the dog hunt . that is what training should be , all positive simulation of hunting . The dog does not know it is not in a hunting situation. With this drill you are giving the dog bird contacts without any pressure.the dog should be having fun and you can control the situation, wich you can not do while hunting. For example if the dog is blinking because of the gun hunting will only make it worse. The one thing you need to avoid with this drill is the launcher and that can be placed far enough away as to not be an issue. And the only other thing not eliminated from the scenario is the bird itself and this will let you find that out. If you launch a bird and the dog is looking to retrieve you know that is not the problem.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:09 am

4da:
I understand what you are saying. In fact I use launchers my self, similar to what you do. But I let my dog figure out birds as much as possible without launchers when they are young to help build up there drive, good flying birds, wild birds are always better than a bird in a launcher. The launcher in my opinion is a great tool that can help control situations and expedite certain training and can help a dog understand what is expected of them when they seem to have a mental block. It can help a dog to start pointing.

Some times you need to step back and get that drive up so the dog can build its confidence and independence and work through some of the more complicated training that will be coming. This dog needs to be a dog first.

My Mercy to this day will have unimpressive points on a laucher, always was that way, take away the launcher and she would smarten right up and look good. Dogs do know difference between hunting and training. Some like both, some don't. Even just going to the same location can tell a dog what is going on. Weather it be a hunt or training field.
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:49 pm

birddog1968 wrote:Is your name Greg 4db
Not unless the famous Greg <some Greek-sounding name> is posting from NY. I had the same thought, BTW.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:28 pm

Blinking is not a problem covered in the standard George Hickox seminar that 4DB is espousing. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, and in my opinion the original poster clearly caused this problem in some manner of the training. 4DB gives some good advice, a dog cannot blink a releaser if it is far enough back and out of the scent cone. However, there is a great deal of credibility that should be given to a dog experiencing wild birds at this stage, and in my opinion the strongest reason why is that it takes half of the training management out of the equation.

Timing is critical and if you are fumbling with a launcher, e collar, remotes, guns, whistles, etc...while nervous about your methods and emotional about your dog your timing is likely not what it should be. I would let the dog go on wild birds and flush a couple to see the reaction...if you get good points shoot a bird or two, if things stay well and your blinking is over, then go back to training with a check cord on the wild birds keeping the exposure and the sessions short. Build the confidence back up...blinking is serious business and you cannot go too slow in getting past the problem.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by birddog1968 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:46 pm

Greg Jennings wrote:
birddog1968 wrote:Is your name Greg 4db
Not unless the famous Greg <some Greek-sounding name> is posting from NY. I had the same thought, BTW.
That string of questions was just like Dejavu .... :wink:
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:02 pm

no my name is not greg

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:06 pm

Geore Hickox does not have a standard seminar.Although he teaches you his training program He taylors each one to the clients that are there based on what level there dog is at. and he will work with you on any specific problem you are having.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:09 pm

Why does a dog blink? A dog blinks to avoid having the same negative experience it has had in the past.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:16 pm

One of the things that george taught me was to guarantee the outcome. That is what my suggestion does. By bringing the dog on a checkcord a good distance from the bird and saying whoa and releasing a bird the dog geets a positive bird contact with out having a chance to blink. This does not take any great ability with timing to accomplish. If the launcher is far enough away it or the bird will not startle the dog .

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:29 pm

I also think you have to read what vagabonder wrote in the original post. He said the dog had a bird flush in its face maybe this is the reason the dog is blinking . So we bring the dog out to south dakota so a big wild rooster can do the same , that would build him up real good! South dakota is along way to go to find out your dog blinks in south dakota . It seems to me this is not a training problem at all it seems to me to be a common sense problem. funny thing how that is not so common anymore.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by snips » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:04 pm

I think your dog has some issues with the launchers...Go hunting......Let him have some fun....
brenda

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:08 am

[quote="4dabirds"]I also think you have to read what vagabonder wrote in the original post. He said the dog had a bird flush in its face maybe this is the reason the dog is blinking .

The bird flushed in its face after some work with the launchers.

["I have shot around her all summer long with no problems but the other day she ran back about 10 yards and sat down when the trap was sprung and I shot (she did fetch when I gave the command)." ]

So it surely has launcher issues. (Maybe a gun issue not sure on that) Sound of launcher, association with bird, whalla a blink. The sound of the launcher is already in its head.

This dog has been worked in a structured, program, FF etc. Steadiness, with no opportunity to learn on its own, it has not had wild birds ( not sure about good flying pen raised birds) that would fly away from it if it got to close. It seems, This dog has no confidence. The dog has no independence. Yep, common sense goes a long way when you use it.

One also has to be willing to let birds go, not shoot each one.

You need to understand many of those that you disagree with on here are successful pros.(I am no Pro) Birds make bird dogs.
Maybe a griff person could chime in here. (Is this an imature or soft dog?) Rhetorical?

I did one of MR. Hickox's 5 day program some 12 or 13 years ago. In fact I had a French brit that was not pointing. (I had not got opportunity to get this dog out ,like I normally would with quail or have had him on wild birds, due to early snows, due to work the dogs age etc etc etc.) George told me we needed to get this dogs bird desire up. (I am paraphrasing). He had us go out each morning and evening for a couple days and just hunt, let the dog find the released birds and just be quiet and let the dog figure things out. During the day we helped and worked on non pressure stuff. He did we went on to the training methods which did not include any launchers, just quail and pigeons. Huh success! Kind of drove it home for me.

Well, I am out. Good luck. No more pressure for now.
Not saying launchers are not a decent tool but.
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by tailcrackin » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:30 am

It is not what you do, but how you do. Launchers are controlled by our touch. You cant blame the launcher for being released to early, or to late. What I get to fix with these style of situations, is the dogs that people that worry to much on snapping pictures, and not on working dogs. If that didnt happen, why did the dog get allowed to be in there to tight on the trap? I bet two things, dog free running and person not watching things develope in the field, or person not paying attention to where everything is at, traps not marked so they could know exactly where they are, dog running loose, and person waiting on dog to point, instead of allowing it to creep in and get to tight. Which has now caused a booger. You can get just as much work done, without the point alot of times. Teach the dog to think a little.
Your timing is very, very important in everything we do. It also sounds like the springs hadnt been changed on the launcher, if they had, it wouldnt be such a loud flush by it releasing.
Traps and checkcords, dont have brains, so it isnt their fault. The checkcord, I dont believe was used while the work was going on, so its not even in contention....but I bet now, after the booger arouse, I bet the worker wishes it was there, the booger bag would probably be packed lighter.Thanks Jonesy
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:52 am

Jonesy: Certainly the dog must have been to close to the launcher at some point or too many times. (Personally, I had let that happen a couple times, way back, by not marking my lauchers and forgetting the exact location.)
What would you do to fix this?
Thanks,
Rick
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by snips » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:33 am

Too close or not, some dogs are just not turned on with launchers.
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:21 am

4DB, I am very familiar with the seminars the last one I was at was a year ago. I have an incredible amount of respect for George, and he has a bunch of my money, and I believe he would advise Vagabonder as most people have here, get the dog back to having fun, and recognize that we are over-training a soft dog. There is plenty of time with a dog this young to go back to structured drills. Dogs who have not been handled by professionals often see inconsistent methods applied or get pushed when they aren't ready because we amateurs miss a signal. This is a problem with birds not compliance.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:54 pm

I guess everybody reads these problems differently . But if you read the original post it says the dog had a bird flush in is face during ht wich i assume is hunt test . I did not know they use launchers in hunt tests. I think alot of people on this site understand dog training and what it takes to get one steady. My concern is that the trainer needs to know what caused it as to not make the same mistake again . As for george I cant speek for what his perscription would be in this case, I only know he would say guarantee the outcome. I did two four day seminars with him in the last two years and he changed the way he trains in some respects from one year to the next. His new dvd is very different than his old one.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:01 pm

Ruffshooter I know what George would say about the dog getting to close to the launcher. Never use the launch bird as the scent bird. Bury a lockwing bird in grass 5 yards out from the launcher It has worked great for me you just need to make sure the dog cannot see it. This sets the launcher far enough away that it wont scare the dog. also a dog not pointing is not the same aas a dog blinking.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by fuzznut » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:27 pm

You say she has been out of heat for 4 weeks?
Two words... False Pregnancy! This can show up until 8 wks after she finishes being in season... 8 wks is when, if bred, she would have had puppies.
Some bitches totally lose their minds, shut down, get grumpy, dig nests......total goofballs.

Feel her teats to see if you feel any swelling at all.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:36 pm

so chuckar 12 if it is a problem with birds why would you want the dog running loose on wild birds . Dont you think it would be better to give the dog some birds in a controlled environment to build up his confidence, Maybe I missed something as well here maybe i shoould have been more cautious and recomended just throwing some clipped wing birds to get the dog more birdy.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by tailcrackin » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:13 pm

Ruff, will pm ya, to much wanting to argue going on. Thanks Jonesy
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Duane M » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:25 pm

Take the dog to SD and let er hunt, ya have the dog equal of an 8 year old thats bored as heck with what it's been doing and sounds a little confused to boot. Plus maybe out smarting you a bit. Lay off the training and worry about what a bird dog is bred to do, not what you can train it to do. Couple of trips and I bet ya see the dog ya knew and a little more.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by vagabonder » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:46 pm

Fuzznut: I checked her out and there is no swelling of any kind so I think i can rule that out.. It did cross my mind though.

4dabirds: great tip on using the launcher with another bird closer. will employ that at a later time.

As for everyone else's comments: you are right, her confidence does need to be built up, i completely agree with that. The more I think of what i have done with her training, I am pretty sure I let the launcher go with her too close. this happened just before the HT where the bird flew into her face which probably compounded the problem. I tossed a bird into the woods today and she had a decent point on it before it flew off. She didn't have any reaction to the flush. So maybe the change of scenery will be good for her.

So my bags are packed, car is loaded (including dog food) and WE will be heading out in the morning. I will take everyones advice and let her do her thing and see how she does. I will report next week on how things went.

Thanks

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Chukar12 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:13 pm

by 4dabirds
so chuckar 12 if it is a problem with birds why would you want the dog running loose on wild birds . Dont you think it would be better to give the dog some birds in a controlled environment to build up his confidence, Maybe I missed something as well here maybe i shoould have been more cautious and recomended just throwing some clipped wing birds to get the dog more birdy.
The bird problem is a product of the aforementioned association. Poor timing and pressure created an unnatural and scary situation for this particular dog. You will note that most people in this thread, a number of whom have had their hands on hundreds of bird dogs, not one or two, recognize the importance of letting this dog regain its confidence with wild birds. Liberated or launched birds all have baggage such as human scent or an unnatural reaction to a predator (i.e. poor flying, slow to flush, launcher noise etc...) one or more of these things is attached to birds for this pup. In all my years I have never seen a dog that wasn't more intense and fired up on wild game birds than pigeons or pen raised birds. This dog needs a break and its intensity built up so that it can handle pressure.

In example, Hickox released 10 to 15 Courtnix Quail in a field in a field at a seminar last September for a year old Viszla because it was too soft for pointing or fly away drills. He roamed free and pointed, chased and caught a few birds at his own pace. Checkcords, launchers, etc...were too much weight and pressure for a dog that just wasn't ready so the dog was backed up in its training.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by 4dabirds » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:05 pm

vagabonder Good luck in south dakota i hope its a great trip for you.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by vagabonder » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:12 pm

So we are back from out trip to SD and so long to the blinking and shutdown.
The day we got there we hunted section lines for about 2 hours in the evening. When she first got out, I could tell she blinked a bird right off the bat and kept moving down the fencerow. I called her to come back to me which flushed the rooster, I shot and cripped the bird (not on purpose mind you) and she gave chase finally catching it. Her prize was she got to carry it back to the truck. That was all it took.
Each day she got better and by the second day she was rock solid on her points. I let her chase some of the birds that we missed (funny she never chased the hens) and she quickly figured out that she couldn't run them down and pretty much stopped chasing once she knew the bird wasn't going to drop. She also learned that sometimes there are two birds and if she chases the first bird she flushes the second one.
As for her confidence, I would say it is as high as ever. She now knows what she is supposed to do and how to do it.

So thanks again to everyone that encouraged me to take her because when I made the initial post I was NOT going to take her. I'm glad I posted on here otherwise we both would have missed out on a really great hunting experience.

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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:25 pm

That is great

Sounds like things came to light and now she knows what she is supposed to do
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:17 am

Vagabond: That is great sounds like you have a bird dog. Glad good old mother nature, her instincts and you let her pull it together.

Congrats on a great day. :D
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:39 am

ezzy333 wrote:Take her hunting and forget the training. She needs to get in a field and find something on her own and chase it if she wants. Forget the collar, CC and the voice commands as much as possible. Sounds like you have overtrained a softer dog that is quite young and have neglected doing anything she likes. Probably not a big problem if you take care of it now and you can worry about training next year. She is a big pup and will mature into a hunting dog in a year or so. Griffs tend to be a little slower than most in that way.

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Ezzy is spot on here. Somewhere, you've put pressure on the dog in one way or another; too many birds, hit by a trap, correction by you, etc. Get her out to SD and for God sake, let the dog have fun and roll. Watch her and enjoy her. Watch how she learns from those wild SD roosters. Watch how she learns the cover they like and will actively search out that cover. Enjoy the dog and don't mess with her. Give her a vacation.
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Re: From Blinking to outright shutdown

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:34 pm

OOPS!! Arlette just pointed out I'm way behind the 8 ball on this one. Sorry for posting late. Glad things worked out.
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