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Silent command system

Silent command system

Postby stickslinger » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:18 pm

I just ordered the Silent Command Training system DVD and have just finished reading "The Best Way to Train Your Bird Dog, The Delmar Smith Method" and I have a couple of questions.

I have an 11 week old GSP and I know that Delmar says no training until they're one, but do I really need to wait that long?

Also, on the training video it talks about overlaying commands after they have learned the conditioned response. How and when do you go about introducing the command and how is it that the dog will associate the command to the desired response if they don't feel that chord around their neck?

I have a bazillion other questions but I'll start with these.

Thanks
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Postby kninebirddog » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:42 pm

One thing to bare in mind about silent command and delmar's book

There is Rick and Ronnie both of them had something they had delmars wisdom and guidance and then had the great pleasure of learning and modifying techniques plus with e collars of today ..much has grown and changed

Training ...most trianers waited to take clients dogs for formal training at about a year

BUT with the silent command there are many things where you can start training with out it being a regimental hard pressure training of yester yeras

The puppy development they offer is also great..should have had a few more things in it but great dvd all the same

the command lead I use on my pups I start with simple little walk with me sessions and stand with me session
I use a taptap for all movment commands and a slight steady pressure till stoppped for the whoa or stand still command I use no words
if i walk forward and give the pup a tap tap he should start to walk with me if i give a steady pull and release when they are stopped the a constant feel will mean do not move or whoa

The seminar Rick and ronnie hold are great as they take YOUR dog and show you how a dog can relate quickly to very clear commands which are spoken through contact points.. then very light stimulation levels.which the collars of today allow..No I do not use an e collar on a 4 month old pup But if i make session short fun and repeat till the pup has matured to a young dog then the transition from the command lead to whoa post (smith Method) to out in the field is very easy
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Postby stickslinger » Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:07 pm

I looked at the seminar schedual, but I'm in S. Louisiana and that's a bit of drive to make it anywhere they have a seminar.
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Postby Wagonmaster » Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:15 pm

i think you need to reread delmar. i think the problem is in the word "training." his book is full of the ways to "develop" a dog, starting from the moment they are big enough to run. the kind of "training" he is talking about, is breaking the dog, putting on pressure to make it a broke dog. yes, that should wait, but there is a ton of stuff that should not.
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Postby kninebirddog » Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:02 pm

www.huntsmith.com
keep check with his site

The seminars are awesome we are going to be hosting another Foundation in March of 2007 backed up with an intermediate...

best thing about his seminars is you take your dog with you and he shows you his methods with your dogs..as Rick does not bring any of his own dogs for the seminars..so when he takes your dog you know excatly what he is dealing with and you can see how well the method works

But as stated there is training which is the true pressure applied and then there is foundation developing which helps a pup learn all the thiungs needed when the trianing days come ..
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Postby Brett D. » Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:46 am

They'll have that seminar out here in San Diego next month or maybe April. I don't think I'll make it this year but the demand seems to great enough(surprisingly) that they are going to be back next year.
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Postby stickslinger » Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:10 am

I'd love to go to a seminar but the closest is over 1000 miles away....don't think I can make it!

How about my second question? When do you start overlaying commands to the conditioned responses in the silent command system?
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Postby QCBirddogs » Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:06 pm

Rick has a great system of training, you just have to be able to work out all the fluff! As well as be able to read a dog, which is the MAJOR part of dog training!

Funny, I guided a hunt today....When one of my older dogs pointed....I warned the hunters that these will be wild birds getting up....and they were. They wanted to know how I knew just by looking at the dog!

He now has three levels of seminars......which could easily be weeded down to one....but hey everyone needs to make a buck! I admit, working with the beginners does slow down the amount of time available as well.

ONce your pup, starts to respect the stimuli he gets with out a voice command, in several different instances with distractions, its time to add the voice command.

Instead of starting the pup on the training lead.....I always start them on a chain gang first.....this way they learn what the stimulus to the neck means and that cant get away from it....ON THEIR OWN. Makes breaking a pup to a lead a lot easier!

PHil
REO
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Postby Toyman » Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:49 pm

If you want to learn about the West/Gibbons silent method of training Martha Greenlee is having a seminar on May 20-21 with Maurice Lindley. This will be at Baskerville, Va. Check it out on her website: www.pineyrunkennel.com
This may not be to far for you to travel.

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Postby kninebirddog » Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:14 pm

BAsically when you know your dog is being consistant with commands and you have been working with the contact points

then you can start to over lay always with the lightest stimulation levels your dog can feel
some of these newer collars the lowest settings can be so light that not even you can feel them :wink: so be sure to test the collars on yourself so you know what your sending...
I do..on the upper inside of my arm some of the new collars give a stimulation which feels like a tingle then some feel a bit shocky each brand of collars have different effects ...I am currently purchasing the Sportdog which Rick Smith has been using and is comfortable enough to put his name on them as they have step up to being better collars...so We shall see
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Postby Richard *UT* » Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:48 am

Stickslinger, welcome and join the group of first timers here. I am one of them. I have a 9mo GSP and when I read Delmar's book I thought the same thing you did. 1 YEAR! :sad1: But as has been said, there is a lot of developing a puppy has to do and a lot you will do to help. I had forgotten what a puppy is like. I had forgotten about potty training, :lol: and teaching independence while at the same time staying in front of me. Just a ton of stuff there in that first year. I will say I have taught "here" as an absolute command (just don't make me show you :lol: ) and I have never had to stress him. The best thing I did was listen to my breeder and those that have gone on before me. I walked my dog in fields with out me hanging on to his checkcord. It has been fun to watch him figure things out. Watching him get birdy. Wait till you give him his first quail to hold. My pup's instincts suddenly turned on, it was a blast. I will begin training Cash this spring and I will tell you this, even though I had a hard time holding off at times, now I am so glad I did not start too soon. There are a lot of training methods out there, hang in there, read what you can, books, mags, websites. You might decide on a different method in that year. Looks like you are off to a great start, lots of great trainers here to help. Enjoy this time, it is a blast. I will let you know how training is going as it gets going.
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Postby stickslinger » Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:45 pm

Thanks for the advice. Here's what I've done so far.

I have a 10' chain staked out about 8' between stakes. The slack is taken up with a stout bungy chord so that when she lunges against it she gets yanked back. I'll stake her for awhile and then go get her and put her on the wonder lead making sure that she is standing still on my left side before anything happens. We'll walk around the yard working on heel for about 10 minutes and then I'll put her back on the chain always making sure that she's standing still and erect on my left side before I release here. After awhile I'll let her loose for play time. When she's walking at heel properly during our sessions I will say "heel" in a calm but firm tone. When she's fighting the lead I won't say anything.

While she's running I leave a 10' chord on her and grab it periodically and give the command "here" and pull her to me. After praising her I'll make her stand still by my side untill I release her with a couple of taps on the head and an "allright".

Her attention span with our other dogs in the yard is about 15 seconds so I put them in the house when we're working. Other than that she seems to be making progress with the exception of obeying the "here" command only when she wants too. Because of this, I'm only giving it when she's coming to me on her own or I have that 10' check chord in my hand.

What should I change?
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Postby kninebirddog » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:24 pm

The heeling ...you want to do different things here you have an 11 week old puppy 10 minutes = burn out for a baby

What i do at this point is let them be a pup do things like on a table having the pup hold still for about 30 seconds...get them used to standing while being touched then move along to the other end if you have a woring table with a cable if not then just set up on a table handle a bit have pup stand then go play

if you press heeel then when you ask for a forward movement your going to have her not want to get in front of you at all

make the games fun I start command lead about at 4 months in brief little sessions

I play whoa games at dinner time

make walking session walking then standing then walking then having them cue to go in front of you making quartering patterns

I use a tap tap for go commands go with you come to you

then a solid feel for a whoa command till the pup stops which the taut feeling quits upon a stop

I practice walking ahead and not taptap so the pup learns to stand there untill commanded


but again all short sessions and fun


Bungy neat idea but long term you have wethering which will snap which can teach her if she keeps at something eventually there is give

But 11 weeks old
chain gang and learning games make the sessions fun 2-5 minutes depending on each excersise :wink:
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