Training progress

[britspan]

Hello all-
I have a female Brittany spaniel that is almost 7 months old. I was wondering where in training that she should be at? I have introduced her to birds, which she is always looking for now. Her drive is incredible. She is doing well with whistle commands, sitting, staying, and here command. My main concern is her fetching. I was using a dummy that I kept away from her unless training, and then dove season came around.. She would find the birds and had some trouble not playing with it. Now I am working hard to get her to hold onto the bird but she won't. I wasnt planning on force fetching her because of my limited experience with it. I'm concerned i'm doing things wrong but trying to stay motivated because of her age I just don't want to be behind where I should be.

[kninebirddog]

FWIW ..I never take my pups dove hunting mostly because many dog do not like dove feathers and it more often then not make a weak retrieve dog learn bad habits

So with that piece of info ..you may need to start having her do beginning steps of trained retrieve

I would only work on holding exercises at this time..things like putting on a heavy glove and have her hold your hand...I like to start there this way I can feel what the dog is doing,,some dog like to play a trick of having an object in the mouth but are not really holding it..make sure she is holding your gloved hand

I like slowly working in the table getting the dog to give paws hands etc relaxing and giving to you..go on to what the dog is ready for

[britspan]

Thanks a lot for the help! So you are saying that I should force fetch her? I've been told that it isn't a necessity and that practicing fetching in a closed off hallway will eventually teach her that she has to bring it back to me. I do not have much experience with force fetching, and would rather her retrieve naturally. I've been doing this and she brings it back just fine but its when I get outdoors and do it she isn't the best at it. . She gets distracted by smelling other more interesting things. Sometimes she won't even acknowledge I have thrown something for her to fetch (as she is healing beside me), and when I give her the "fetch" command she just goes on her own looking for birds and disregarding all the training we have worked on.
Also, would you consider her to be on-track as far as her age and training are in consideration? I don't know if I am pushing her to hard for her age or what. Personally I think she is on-track, but more experienced gun dog trainers would have way more knowledge than myself about her progress. Like I said before, I can make her stay and walk 50-60 yards away and she will stay the whole time until I giver her a "come" command, she sits every time I command, and she smells/looks for birds every second we are outside (she will even see a bird flying). I am trying to train her to be a HPR (hunt point retrieve Brittany because I do a lot of different types of bird hunting, and that is the reason I chose a Brittany because of there wide variety of abilities, even though she will probably excel in pointing.

[ArcticRetrievers]

Thanks a lot for the help! So you are saying that I should force fetch her? I've been told that it isn't a necessity and that practicing fetching in a closed off hallway will eventually teach her that she has to bring it back to me. I do not have much experience with force fetching, and would rather her retrieve naturally.

When I first started Training, I had the same opinion. That a retriever should retrieve Naturally, but through the years I have learned that, that isnt the case. Yes, some dogs can be hunted over without a single FF lesson, but in order to fix your problems and get a nice solid retrieve I would recommend FFing. it is not hard to do, and there is plenty of literature on the subject (my Favorite is "Smart Fetch" by Evan Graham). A nice Solid retrieve will be your result and it is worth the effort.

I've been doing this and she brings it back just fine but its when I get outdoors and do it she isn't the best at it. . She gets distracted by smelling other more interesting things. Sometimes she won't even acknowledge I have thrown something for her to fetch (as she is healing beside me), and when I give her the "fetch" command she just goes on her own looking for birds and disregarding all the training we have worked on.

It sounds like she needs a little more focus, I might Back off of the birds a litle while you firm up her retrieve, its great that she is eager, but when she has selective hearing due to her desire to hunt that can be a bad combination. Also I would Push her "Retrieve" a little less, and work on her FFing, That way no matter where she is, she is Happy to get back to work, not distracted because now she knows that she may not get this all the time.

Also, would you consider her to be on-track as far as her age and training are in consideration? I don't know if I am pushing her to hard for her age or what. Personally I think she is on-track, but more experienced gun dog trainers would have way more knowledge than myself about her progress.

it sounds like she is doing quite well. as for her progress, remember that all dogs learn at their own speeds, some can take 3 years, some 6 months. it is dependent on the dog, and your devotion to training. She sounds like she is right where she should be though.

[Winchey]

I have had some success with training the forced retrieve without the force. Now my dogs are not as solid as dogs that were properly force fetched but it has helped me get rid of some mouth problems. Simply go through the ff steps, you can open a dogs mouth easily by sticking your finger in between their back teeth, place an object in there, stroke, praise quitely, then give your out command, reward and repeat. Keep the sessions short, you just want to get the dog to like having things in his mouth and holding properly, teach him how to hold it properly. You need to have a very solid here or come for this to work but I have had success. Remember this is not a proven method and you may need ff later but I have had success and if you can get your dog reaching for and holding objects without the force I can't help but think it would make ff easier down the road if you whished to go that route. I have done this with 2 dogs. Ones favourite thing to do was to pick up everything and anything but liked to do it on his own terms, not mine and decided birds were not for him. The other is a pup with lots of retrieve desire but decided that he didn't really have to pick up every bird and that it was ok to just mouth or lick them instead of bringing them back. (he is not finished and was bringing back about 70% before i did this, now he brings back about 95%, he is just a pup and a lot of it may be experience.)

[3Britts]

Best advice that I can give is that you should not rush the training, every dog is different and will progress at its own speed. Force fetching is a good ideas if she is ready. Most dogs will let you know that they are ready when they begin picking up the bird. With that in mind, I would get a bird instead of a bumper to use when teaching to retreive. I use pigeons as they are cheap. Keep the bird in the freezer until you are ready to use it. This way your dog will get use to having feathers in her mouth. Refreeze the bird when your are done with training for the day.
Most of all, find your local brittany club, they will be your best resource in training your dog. You will find that many of the members really know what they are doing and will be more than glad to help you train your dog and teach you what you need to know.
Good luck with your pup. If she has drive, you should do well.

[britspan]

Thanks again for more help.. I think she is ready for fetch training by now, because she is taking other training with a grain of salt and learning very fast, I just don't want to mess her up by ff training her improperly. I started ff her a month or two ago but was told to try and see if she will naturally retrieve, I guess I need to do my research, but for now I am going to start with force fetching again. I have some wings that I cured and saved from last season that I could use, should I use the bumper or wing? When she sees a shot bird she will grab it and run in my direction with it. Would it be smarter to use the wing or the bumper? It should probably be easier for her to relate holding the birds when I am using a wing rather than the bumper shouldn't it? Her drive for birds is so high, I think that I should start with the wing.

[ezzy333]

In my opinion you are getting way ahead of where you should be. I wouldn't start a FF training program till she has had a year in the field and is nearing two years old. And if you are just going to hunt her and not use her in competition you likely will find she doesn't even need it. But regardless of what you decide about it, don't start it now till she is older and more mature in her actions as well as mentally. Give her a chance to find out what she is doing before you start trying to correct things she hasn't done yet.

Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

When I begin the FF process I do not use birds until the finishing touches...I use hard wood dowel and other items even heavy plastic water bottles with some water in it.

Sharon Potter she has a FF seminar hard to get to but if you can it is well worth the hands on experience..I hope Sharon makes a video some day

Delmar Smith has a video which was done some time ago..it is OK ..to politically correct but it gets the idea across

the book by Evans I hear a lot of good things about

[Sprig]

When I begin the FF process I do not use birds until the finishing touches...I use hard wood dowel and other items even heavy plastic water bottles with some water in it.

Great advice.

all the "bad" stuff should be with something the dog will never see again like a wood dowel or such. Personally, i would wait a few months until you FF her. Keep playing fetch to try and get it as naturally as possible before FF starts. if she stops fetching use a different object and cut back on the fetches thrown each time. force fetching isnt hard and there isnt really an upper limit on age but the dog does need to be mentally developed and mentally tough enough age wise to handle the pressure so there isnt any rush to jump into it if you aren't 100% sure she can handle the immense pressure the procedure will put on her until the end when she gets birds again.

[britspan]

That is a very smart tip.. using things the dog doesn't see everyday. I'm glad that mostly everyone is saying to wait to ff her, that is why I was asking about her training progress. I could have had some problems if I tried and force fetch already. I talked to her breeder about my concern and he was also saying to wait a while if you decide to FF her. I have tried and tried to get her to fetch properly and she never would so I figured she didn't have the natural retrieve, even considering he has never FF his dogs and he uses them for trials and hunting companions. So, basically ya'll are saying as she gets a couple of months older she will become more natural and natural on retrieving? I had recently owned a weim. and she was a better retrieve than the brittany pup I have now, which doesn't make since because the weim was from a show dog bloodline. Taking into consideration what ya'll said, it was because what I remember of the weimeraner is when she was old and mature?

[kninebirddog]

At this age you can do some holding exercises not super hard but getting her the idea to hold

thing to help encourage a retrieve when you toss an item or bird do not just grab the item when the dog gets back to you...let the dog hold it reward it for being there with the item in the mouth but do not let them chew on it

only toss once maybe twice depending on how excited the dog is ALWAYS LEAVE THEM WANTING MORE so don't do that one more time if you had a super retrieve Quit leave it on that good note

Quality of time is way more important then quantity of time

One thing about show lines they still like to play and many are taught to catch treats..this gives the bright perked ears and eyes and intense type expressions a judge looks for