Big running big dog (GWP)

[basspow1]

His high drive causes him to range out of gun range on wild birds. I am able to get him to respond to the E-collar when he gets out to far. I don't like constantly using the whisle and a nick to recall. Any tips? This is his third year on wild birds.
He points and will hold as long as the bird dosen't move. I don't like running him with a long check cord, to easy to get hung up.maybe a piece of log chain?

[RayGubernat]

Basspow -

This might not be what you want to hear, but...here goes.

The dog will hold unless the bird moves. If it were my dog I would extend the training just a little bit to have the dog completely honest, which is to say...hold point until I got there. regardless of what the bird does.

If the dog holds point until you get there, more often than not, the bird will be under the dog's point, but if not, it will very often be a short distance away and the dog will probably know pretty much exactly where the bird went. A snappy relocation can be a really exciting piece of work.

If the dog will hold until you get there, it makes very little difference how far the dog's desire takes him. It might be a lot easier on both you and the dog to work toward that goal, rather than constantly trying to control the dog .

I have not seen a huge number of Wires, but the ones I have seen(at field trials) were very well aware of where their handler was and kept very well in touch. They would also hold point until the cows came home or until the handler got there, whichever came first.

I think that if you were to train yor dog to hold point, once it was established, and you took some time to get used to it yourself, you would find your hunting with that dog even more enjoyable because rather than fighting with one of the dog's strengths, you are letting it work for you.

It is also entirely posible for you to modify the dog's pattern, to limit forward progress. With the e-collar, let the dog run until it reaches the outer edge of your comfort zone. Then turn the dog with a voice or whistle or hand signal. If the dog does not turn, nick it with the collar until it does turn. As the dog goes across your front, you should close the distance between you. Then when the dog reaches the outer edge of your comfort zone on the opposite side of the field, turn the dog forward until it has opened up another gap of space and then back across in front in the same manner, once again allowing you to close the gap.

This is called "bending" a dog.

If you are consistent and persistent, the dog will begin to start turning itself when it approaches that "outer edge" of your comfort zone. This may take some time, perhaps months... but it can be done with any dog if you have the patience and consistently apply those boundaries.

There is also no reason why you cannot, or should not pursue both strategies a the same time. You might just wind up with a dog that others will wish they owned.

RayG

[Ruffshooter]

Just in Short: Pointing dogs hunt out of Gun Range usually, flushing dogs hunt in gun range. What you need is an honest dog, which as Ray has said is training. Train the dog to be steady and honest, and you will truly learn and enjoy the value of a pointing dog. Ditto all of Rays post.

Enjoy that beasts natural tendancies.
Rick

[PntrRookie]

Ditto all of Rays post.

X2

[basspow1]

Thanks Rat G Back to the drawing board will get some birds (pigeons) and work on being steady. His size and my age prevented me from lifting him up and reseting him,thus his sloppy points and hold. Might be time for the willow switch.

[RayGubernat]

Basspow -

Take a look at Mo Lindley's methods(steady with style). He does it all on the ground, no tables, no benches no barrels, no picking the dog up.
I had a conversation with Pete De Angelis (a well known and respected trainer who does good work with Brittanys) and he also does all his work on the ground.

As far as setting a dog back, I used to pick the dog up and take it all the way back to the spot of the infraction because that is what I was taught. I have since learned that moving the dog back a couple of steps is just as effective and a lot easier on my back(most of my pointers ain't small), so that is what I do now.


You can have it your way, as long as you are willing to work for it, but if you give the dog some extra room to operate, I sincerely believe its bird contacts will go up in a very significant way and if the dog is staunch until you get there, your bird bag will fill faster. Even I have a hard time missing a shot over a hard pointed bird.

RayG

[gonehuntin']

How far is the dog ranging that you're concerned with it?

What type of birds are you hunting?

[basspow1]

I know I am hunting pheasants with a not completly broke dog, he does pretty good in close,though.

[mudhunter]

I keep young dogs that I don't trust close!!

As the dogs gets more trust worthy they earn the chance to get out and hunt far. I love a big running dog! but until I can trust him I don't let him out of my site, Green Broke dogs stay painfully close.

[Birddogz]

Pheasants are really tough for all dogs, especially young ones. A great pheasant dog takes years to mold. My young DD is similar. She will slam her points, and then relocate and point as she sees fit. I have started whoaing her, and she'll stay on point, but isf she is out of sight I bet she wouldn't. Now, when there is snow, and the birds are not running, she behaves like the best bird dog ever. Slamming points, retrieving, etc. It takes a while for a dog to learn how to be cautious on phez, and even then they are going to bump some. The pheasant is just a difficult bird to hunt for a pointing breed, but once they figure them out, I believe they are better than the best flushers. Good luck, and just keep your dog on lots snd lots of birds. Reinforce whoa, and listen to Ray on the training.

[Tall Boy]

You have to train them to hold point, that's 80% of what bird dog training is.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Basspaw,
Sounds like you might want to use the same training technique we do at Pine Creek Grouse dog Trainers. We use the Dogtra T&B collar, using the beeper as a recall and locator. The beeper is used in all different parts of training, initiated by the handler, one beep the dog understands as a locator, two and three beeps the dog must return to the master, unless the dog is on point, then we use the one beep spaced out as many times as required, to locate the dog on point.
Good luck with your training
RGD/Dave

Two of our Grouse hunters moving in, after locating our Grouse dogs, using the Beeper portion of the T&B Collar.