Breaking Process

[Winchey]

Ok so I have a 1 year old, another week or so until bird season ends. He was introduced to pen quail in the summer, worked him to the point with just a few of them every couple of days with just a check cord just to where i could get a 4 in pointing in Navhda NA. Mission accomplished, except he got a 0 in track so we worked on a lot of tracks for the retest, he got his mouth on a lot of birds and his track went to 4 but point down to 2. Anyway's I decided I was done with that foolishness and only hunted him on wild grouse. It took a while but he is finally nailing those birds and holds for 10-30 seconds. My plan is to hunt out the remainder of the year, work on a lot of obedience over the winter then get him on the woodcock migration in the spring then start steadying him up with a launcher and cc. Is this a good idea? He knows whoa under a lot of distractions but not around his biggest distraction (birds) so I haven't used it with them. I should be able to get his woah to where I can throw birds in front of him and he won't break by the spring, probably wouldnt be able to stop him from chasing a bird at a dead run though. I don't need a stone broke dog, but I want one in a couple years, I am looking for a dog that is at least steady until the shot by next fall for the new hunting season and his upt test. What would you guys do. I am a complete rook.

P.S. I am forbidden to use e, prong, choke and pinch collars. Punishable by loss of house and girlfriend.

[Keny Glasscock]

Sucks to be you. Get a good stiff leather collar about an inch wide and use it just like you would a pinch collar. The deal is "mean it when you send it". Translated: one good correction is better than 10 whimpy ones. It will take as long as it takes. Be patient, don't let the dog get away with stuff, chasing, crowding, roading in etc. Work on your timing and get someone more knowledgable to help you when you hit the wall. Oh yeah avoid training around or near your girlfriend.

[ACooper]

You seriously need to reconsider you situation, you are in for a long hard road with out tools.

[tommyboy72]

Sheesh, do you have your own man purse or just borrow hers?

Just kidding best of luck with your training but without an ecollar you are in for a long road. I hunted and trained for years without one but it was really difficult. Best tool ever invented was the ecollar in my opinion.

[birddogger]

P.S. I am forbidden to use e, prong, choke and pinch collars. Punishable by loss of house and girlfriend.

There is so much misconseption concerning the tools available. That being said, I see no reason why you can't accomplish what you want with a CC and launchers. Just learn the methods for using them.

Charlie

[Don]

If you do a search, don't ask me how, you will find about a year or so ago in here a wonderful video Yallack did on this subject. He did not use any kind of choke collar, just the plain collar. It is not necessary to punish a dog to teach it. Punishment is for willfull disobedience. Maybe if you PM him he still has it and will post it again.

[Winchey]

Thanks guys. I will have a look for that Don. I do have a citranella collar but I wouldn't dare use it on him around birds. It is more of a punch in the face, no slight nick setting on it. And yah trying to convince the gf that the e-collar is fine, or not as harsh as the citranella collar is like banging my head against the wall. Women. The dog is usually not very hard headed, he doesen't usually need much correction. Although when he gets it into his head that he doesen't want to do something you could smash him with a sledge hammer with no effect.

[pointshootretrieve]

It can be done, consecutive correct repetitions followed with Praise, it will take a little longer but on the flip side you will never need to worry about dead batteries and such. People seem to forget that an ecollar is not going to help unless the dog has been trained to know what is expected of him and can be corrected with the collar. Look for a book from The American Hunting Dog Club by Ervin Jones and Don Smith

[ArcticRetrievers]

I know its a Weird Suggestion, but since your not allowed a "Regular" E-collar, you might try this one by Unleashed ( http://futurepet.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.e ... UM=UN00101 )...It is a completely NO-Shock collar, and works through different levels of Vibration. Its a thought, and it will give you at least some control from a distance...If I had your restrictions I would try it out...
Good Luck

[ArcticRetrievers]

You Can also Find the "Unleashed" Product @ gundogsupply.com

[RayGubernat]

Winchey -

Why don't you have the girlfriend train the dog to your needs. It is easy to make rules. It is often very much harder to live within those very same rules.

Since she has made the rules, she must be an expert at dog training. Why not let her operate within those very same rules and see just how successful she will be producing a useful bird dog for you. That sounds fair, don't you think??


Alternatively, you could always state that you do not know how to train a dog that way and ask her to pay for half the training fee. Three to four months at $600 a month plus birds would be good for starters, so her share will be in the neighborhood of $1000. That sounds fair to me also.

I learned a long time ago it is far better not to fight. Simply give up and let the person who wants it their way to have it their way. ALLLLL the way their way.

Sit back, crack open a beer, say nothing at all and just watch. Or is that against the rules too??


RayG

[Winchey]

Haha, that will never work. I am pretty good with positive reinforcement and shaping techniques and she knows this. She also doesen't care that much if my dog is a good hunting dog or not. She has the mentality that if I have to use pain to make a hunting dog then I shouldn't have a hunting dog. I trained her dog and passed the k9 good neighbour test, and my dog should easily pass that at the moment, he will take it in february but his biggest distraction is birds. It will be tough for the simple fact that there is nothing I can give the dog as a reward that is better to him then the bird in front of him. The only real good reward I could give him is shooting the birds that he handles well. He is an obsessive retriever so a tossed bumper is great, but he would still rather have that bird out in front of him I am sure. It is going to be a long road but I am up for it. I am absolutely sure I can get a pretty good hunting dog out of these methods, heck I already have a pretty good hunting dog. The thing I am not sure about is if I can get a finished hunting dog. Only time will tell I guess.