Chomping/Eating Help

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rapid fire
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Chomping/Eating Help

Post by rapid fire » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:29 pm

I have a 8 month old setter who will chomp or try to eat a bird on a retrieve. She will retrieve straight to me, but she will chomp once or twice when she picks the bird up and try her best to get the bird headed down her throat during the retrieve. She doesn't piddle or stop to chomp and very enthusiastically comes straight back to me, but then I have to get ahold of the flank to get the bird before she eats it. This is happening with quail (penned and wild.) I did shoot one pigeon for her and she brought it back to me with little to no chomping. She's only had about 6 birds shot for her, so I'm hoping I can fix this before it becomes a full habbit. Please help. Thanks, RF

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rapid fire
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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by rapid fire » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:35 pm

Nothing?

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briguyz71
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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by briguyz71 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:13 pm

Were the birds fluttering when she chomped down on them?

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:20 pm

Rapid fire,
I would use a force fetch program. It will stop the hard mouth.

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by mmannuzza » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:57 pm

Are you sure she will eat the bird if you let her? I've seen a lot of dogs that give a bird a good chomp or 2 when they first pick it up. Some might even pull a few feathers out. But this is different from hard-mouth. I've never actually seen a true hard-mouth dog, but my understanding is they will rip a bird apart, and this is generally considered to be a genetic thing that is very difficult to break.

Your dog is a pup and might just be having some fun. It might break this habit once you start shooting more birds over her. My setter pup use to play with birds a little, but once we started shooting lots of birds, he now generally gets bored quickly after the inital pick-up and wants to go find more birds. He passed through this stage quickly. Hopefully yours will too.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:26 am

There's a few things here.

1). Are you sure she'd eat the bird, or is she just mouthing the bird which is very normal with young dogs and small birds?

2). Does she hurt the bird when she chomps it; is the skin broken?

3). I ff all of my dogs, but with many, all they need is a course in hold, especially with pointing dogs. At the minimum, this is what I would consider whether she has a problem or not.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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rapid fire
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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by rapid fire » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:13 am

The birds were stone dead and yes I am certain she would eat them. She tried to eat the first bird she ever picked up, but I pulled it out of her throat. She later caught an escaped penned bird and swallowed it whole before I could get to her. She doesn't tear birds apart, just chomps them a time or two to get them facing head first and starts swallowing. Both birds had tooth holes to through and through. I am thinking of not even hunting her anymore this year till' she is old enough to FF.

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by snips » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:15 am

I think I told you before not to shoot any more birds for her til she grows up some...Then use the ecollar to give her a nick on Here...Do it without bird first for a couple of days then if she chompS, 'HERE" and nick...But let that pup grow up...Setters really need maturity. I would pull her off birds til at least a yr old and steady her...Then worry about the retrieve, but thats me.... :roll:
brenda

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rapid fire
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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by rapid fire » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:30 am

Brenda, you did. I felt like she had matured a lot in the last few months and thought she might have been ok now, but I was wrong. I really hoped my shorthair would get to handle any retrieves on these wild birds, but Pepper really made a showing the other day. She should be jam up when I let her grow up. Thanks y'all. Mark

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by Chukar12 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:02 pm

by mmannuzza
But this is different from hard-mouth. I've never actually seen a true hard-mouth dog, but my understanding is they will rip a bird apart, and this is generally considered to be a genetic thing that is very difficult to break.
If a bird has holes in it put there by a dogs teeth it has too hard a mouth...that is what the "hold" part of force fetch is for

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by mmannuzza » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:59 pm

Yeah, but my point is there are different types of hard mouth. There are those dogs that develop it, and those that are genetically pre-disposed to it, which is why breeders are encouraged not to breed hard mouth dogs.

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by gonehuntin' » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:45 pm

I'd say you better get that dog to a pro and fast. Mouth problems are problems that can many times never be cured, only controlled. It is no problem for a beginner to even consider tackling.
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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by 4dabirds » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:14 pm

steady to wing shot and fall. Then force fetch. If the dog is not allowed to retrieve it can not be a problem. Let the gsp retrieve the birds. take your time there is no fire to go to.

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by mountaindogs » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:37 pm

Teach hold.
You do not have to do the whole FF. Just train hold and transfer it to birds slowly in the yard. Preferably in the off season. This is the best solution.

Short of that here is what I am doing with my GSP. Before I explain I am going to state that getting him to retrieve has NEVER been a problem. That is he is GOING to get the bird. Sounds like you might have had hesitation and so this may NOT be the best way to deal with your trouble.
When he hits point I snap on the CC. My guy is steady through the shot mostly so I don't have to worry about him jerking away right away. Then I set my stuff down, so I have all my hands, pick up the CC, command fetch (release him to fetch because he is READY TO GO!! and standing on his toes usually. Then I walk him in tighter to the bird and let him go the last 6 feet or so full speed, I squat down, and as soon as that bird is in his mouth I am reeling him in. He comes back well anyway, but 6 feet is not much time to Chomp if he is coming well. When gets to me I take his mouth, open it and maybe catch the bird. Then I stay in that position and praise him loudly and excessively (when he does not have the bird anymore, and tease him with the bird a bit (not letting him grab it, but letting him see it's not gone - I didn't steal it & eat it myself :wink: ) a bit is like 5-15 seconds. If it went well I might throw it again for him. He is still on CC and I repeat the tight close toss. If he or the gun mangled the bird, I don't want his mouth on it again. Sometimes I'll throw a prekilled bird instead of the shot bird. Let the real bird go, shoot a blank, and toss the bird. It's takes them intensity down a notch and you know the bird is a bit stiff. They seem less inclined to munch when the bird is not recently shot.

An old trainer once recomended a chilled (refrigerated) bird said they often don't like the cold flesh... again though a caution if retrieving was not intersting at first.

But too much jerking and pulling may turn him off retrieving of he was not retrieving before. SO if he didn't munch the pigeon, then get bigger birds, maybe he would be better on pigeons, and chukar ??? Others can chime in. Mine would munch it all, but he was worse on quail.

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by slistoe » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:08 pm

Teach the dog that it does not eat anything - and that literally means ANYTHING - without your express permission. Put a piece of raw steak on top of its nose and it will not eat it. Then your bird eating will be cured.

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by rapid fire » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:48 am

Slistoe, I am working on that as we speak. She sits calmly till I say ok and she doesn't eat till she does it. I will try this with hot dog bites, getting closer and closer to her mouth as I go. It's low pressure and if it doesn't help, there's nothing lost.

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Re: Chomping/Eating Help

Post by Trekmoor » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:26 pm

If your dog is doing this with Quail, a small bird, then, if it were me , I'd try to give it larger birds to retrieve for a while. I'd not use quail again until the dog would happily retrieve, partridge, grouse, pheasants etc. The more your dog gets to try to eat quail the more it will think that's what it should do.

Bill T.
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