Gun Dog Forum

Hey everyone,

After years of bureaucratic bumbling, our game dept. is finally getting its act together to make it legal for Oregon dog trainers to use game birds to train their dogs. We've convinced them to trash their first two attempts at rule-making; they were a train wreck, assembled by non-hunter/non-dog owners in the department. Now in their infinite wisdom they've decided to assemble an advisory committee to help them do it the right way - duh!

Guess who's on the committee?

What experience and knowledge do you have in your state: closed/open areas and why; "seasons"; limits on number or types of birds you can use; banding/marking birds; certified disease free; etc. Everything's on the table and we need as much feedback as possible - FAST! Thanks.

Scott -

Both Delaware and NJ have designated dog training areas which are reasonably convenient to the population centers. On these areas, dog training may be conducted essentially year round. In most cases, the dog training area is a portion of a larger WMA.

In Delaware, with the appropriate permits, one can also shoot game for the purpose of training retrievers(with the appropriate permit of course) on these same training areas, also essentially 12 months a year. Of course training is permitted on other state owned WMA's during the hunting seasons and private land, whenever you wish. In NJ, you may also train on WMA's except during the late spring and early summer(to allow for reproduction).

I like the concept of providing a legal way to conduct dog training year 'round on selected state facilities. It allows regular folks without access to private ground an opportunity to train.

In both states, there is little in the way of native bird populations, so if there were training areas established in your state, it would probably be best if they were sited in areas with little or no wild bird carryover.

It might be sensible to enumerate the bird species that may be used in various areas. If quail or chuckar are not indigenous to an area, it is probably fine to use penraised birds there as there willl be no possibility of degrading native birds. Birds like feral pigeons might be considered for unrestricted use.

RayG

Oklahoma:

§29-5-203. Carrying firearms while training dogs.
A. A hunting dog trainer may carry shotguns or firearms on public or private property other than state parks where
hunting game to kill is now prohibited while training bird hunting dogs provided that:
1. The trainer notifies the game warden in his region prior to going into the field;
2. The trainer has a dog training shoot to kill license, obtainable from the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife
Conservation at a fee not to exceed Ten Dollars ($10.00) per year;
3. The trainer has a current receipt from a licensed commercial or noncommercial game breeder of the propagated
bird, or has reared the bird himself, which is being released for the training purposes, stating the number of birds and the
date obtained; and
4. All propagated birds so used are tagged or banded prior to their release. Provided, further that the use of a bird
hunting dog may be permitted in the legal hunting of quail, dove, prairie chickens, pheasant and waterfowl.
5. A person may carry a pistol while training a bird dog without having met the provisions of paragraphs 1 through
4 of this subsection.
B. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section shall be punished by a fine of not less than One
Hundred Dollars ($100.00) and not more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail for
not less than ten (10) days nor more than one (1) year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
Page 2

For upland birds here in Missouri, you can get a permit for private land training, called a dog training permit. Quail/pheasants are allowed to be released and shot. Birds must be banded. The owner of the property must post signs and two shooters are allowed on the permit (I think that was up for a change soon though). The owner should make every attempt to harvest all the birds released. There are other permits as well, but this is the one that directly relates to your question.

The major problem with allowing the release of birds (whether on private or public land) is the potential for folks to abuse the system and start releasing pen reared birds into the wild - a concept that is proven to be faulty time after time. Most pen reared birds have a lifespan of less than 20 days in the wild.

There are no provisions that I know of for the release of native birds to train on conservation areas here in MO.

Nebraska--
You can train on dog training areas year round(very few training areas in state, 2 or 3 around Lincoln + 1or 2 mid state). Field trial areas in the state are Not considered training grounds, you have to get special permission from the state to hold field trials and release birds on them(even if they aren't shot). You can train on private ground with the owners permission. All native birds must be tagged on release--non native birds do not need to be tagged. You must have a card signed by the person you bought the birds from. You can use 5 quail per dog per day. You can use 1 rooster per dog per day(use to be 1 hen a day but they changed that--they change the numbers on pheasants alot.). Non native birds as of this time, have no limit to how many shot per day. Released quail on public ground can NOT be recalled. The Game and Parks change the laws on this stuff alot and they don't do a very good job of letting people know about the changes. I usually have to call the local game wardens to find out if there are any NEW laws.

Arizona
There is no training on wild birds during the closed season. But you may attain training permits for the hunt unit for which you train in to use non indigenous game birds such as bob whites and chukars. Permits are free at this time but you have to fill a form and mail it in and you do need one for each hunt unit you will be training in

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
PENNSYLVANIA GAME COMMISSION

AUTHORIZATION TO RELEASE CAPTIVE BIRDS
ON STATE GAME LANDS


ORDER

WHEREAS, The Pennsylvania Game Commission (Commission) has determined that the hunting and/or training of dogs on artificially propagated live birds is a wholesome activity enjoyed by many thousands of Pennsylvanians; and
WHEREAS, Section 102 of the Game and Wildlife Code (hereinafter Game Code) defines, inter alia, pheasants, bobwhite quail and chukar partridges as "wild birds" (34 Pa.C.S. § 102 (relating to definitions));
WHEREAS, Section 2303 of the Agricultural Code generally defines, inter alia, rock pigeons (a.k.a. rock doves) as a "domestic animal" (3 Pa.C.S. § 2303 (relating to definitions));
WHEREAS, Section 137.2(a) of the Pennsylvania Code specifically authorizes the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail and chukar partridges on public (other than state game lands) or private lands for dog training and/or hunting purposes (58 Pa. Code § 137.2(a)); and
WHEREAS, Section 135.41(c)(13) of the Pennsylvania Code specifically prohibits the release of captive bred or captive raised wildlife or domestic animals on state game lands without the express written permission of the Director (58 Pa. Code § 135.41(c)(13)); and
WHEREAS, The Commission recognizes that state game lands provide some of the best upland bird habitat found within the Commonwealth suitable for the hunting and/or training of dogs on artificially propagated live birds; and
WHEREAS, The Commission has recognized a growing interest in the public's ability to utilize state game lands for the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons for hunting and/or dog training purposes; and
WHEREAS, The Commission is aware of no scientific evidence indicating that the release of healthy captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons into the wild poses any significant threat to the health and wellbeing of the Commonwealth's wildlife resources and/or their respective habitats; and
WHEREAS, The Game Code (34 Pa.C.S. §§ 101 et seq.) and its attendant regulations (58 Pa. Code §§ 131.1 et seq.) collectively provide broad authority to the Commission to regulate activities relating to the protection, preservation and management of all game and wildlife and their respective habitats (C.f. 34 Pa.C.S. §§ 322, 2101 and 2102); and
WHEREAS, In an effort to support and encourage the hunting and/or training of dogs on artificially propagated live birds, the Commission has determined that it is willing to relax regulatory restrictions on the release of captive bred or captive raised wildlife or domestic animals on state game lands by providing the following express written permission to specifically authorize the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes; and
NOW THEREFORE, I, Carl G. Roe, Executive Director of the Pennsylvania Game Commission, pursuant to the authority vested in me by the Game Code and its attendant regulations, do hereby authorize the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes as follows:
1. Only licensed hunters or persons acting under the authority of a valid field dog trial permit shall be eligible to participate in the release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes.
2. Except as provided in paragraph five (5) below, eligible persons releasing captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants or bobwhite quail on state game lands during closed seasons for the same shall apply for and receive a field dog trial permit from the Commission prior to engaging in release activities (See 34 Pa.C.S. §§ 2943 (relating to field dog trials) and 2944 (relating to field dog trials for retrievers)).
3. Except as provided in paragraph five (5) below, eligible persons releasing captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants or bobwhite quail on state game lands during open seasons for the same are encouraged, but not required, to apply for and receive a field dog trial permit from the Commission prior to engaging in release activities. However, should a field dog trial permit not be obtained, all daily and field possession bag limits for each respective species, as found in Section 139.4 of the Pennsylvania Code, shall apply in full force and effect (58 Pa. Code § 139.4).
4. Except as provided in paragraph five (5) below, eligible persons may release captive bred or captive raised chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands through out the duration of the license year without the need for obtaining a field dog trial permit.
5. The release of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes during the entire month of October remains expressly prohibited without a field dog trial permit. The issuance of a field dog trial permit during the month of October will be predicated upon the absence of any pheasant stocking activities in the near area as determined by the Commission.
6. All takings of captive bred or captive raised ringneck pheasants, bobwhite quail, chukar partridges and rock pigeons pursuant to this order shall be conducted in conformance with the limitations of Section 2308 of the Game Code (34 Pa.C.S. § 2308 (relating to unlawful devices and methods)) and Sections 141.20 and 141.22 of the Pennsylvania Code (58 Pa. Code §§ 141.20 (relating to protective material required) and 141.22 (relating to small game)).
7. This Order shall not be construed in any manner to permit the hunting or taking of wild game or wildlife in any manner inconsistent with the Game Code or its attendant regulations. Specifically, this Order shall not be construed in any manner to abrogate or diminish any current or future limitations or prohibitions on the hunting or taking of pheasants, the release of artificially propagated live pheasants or the training of dogs within any area designated as a wild pheasant recovery area.
8. This Order shall not be construed in any manner to limit the Commission’s authority to establish additional or further authorizations or limitations relating to the release of artificially propagated live birds on state game lands for hunting and/or dog training purposes.

CALIFORNIA:
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg382a.pdf

§3206. Transport or Sell Dead Domesticated Game - Requirements
No domesticated game bird or mammal shall be transported
or sold dead unless each quarter and each loin of the
carcass of each large mammal, the carcass of each bird,
except as provided in Section 2401 for a domesticated game
bird raised outside this State, and the carcass of each small
mammal is tagged with a domesticated game breeder’s tag
or seal. The tag or seal shall not be removed until such quarter,
loin, or carcass is prepared for consumption.
No tag so affixed shall be used again.
No tag or seal shall be sold by the department to anyone
other than a person who is legally in possession of domesticated
game.
§3207. Tag or Seal Fees
The department shall collect three cents ($0.03) for each
tag or seal.
California Code of Regulations, Title 14, Excerpts
§677. Dog Training and Field Trials
(a) Dog Training When No Wild Birds Are Captured,
Injured, or Killed. Notwithstanding Section 265 of these
regulations, a person may train dogs to retrieve, or to point or
flush game birds, or may train for or participate in field trails
or similar events related to these activities, at any time of
year from sunrise to sunset if no wild birds are captured,
injured, or killed. Domestically reared birds may be released
and taken for dog training or field trials only as provided in
Section 677(b). Dogs shall not be trained on or otherwise be
allowed to pursue any birds that have special protection under
California or federal law, including but not limited to fully
protected birds (Section 3511 of the Fish and Game Code)
and endangered, threatened or candidate species (Section
670.5 of these regulations and Code of Federal Regulations,
Title 50, Section 17.11).
(b) Release and Take of Birds. Notwithstanding Section
671.6 of these regulations, bobwhite and coturnix quail,
domestic pigeons, and the following domestically reared game
birds may be released and/or taken during dog training or
organizational field trials in accordance with subsections (b)(1)
through (b)(5) of this section, general resident game bird regulations,
or licensed game bird club regulations: pheasants
(Phasianus colchicus), including all ring-necked pheasant
races, chukar, Hungarian partridge and captive-reared mallard
ducks.
(1) Hunting License Required. Each person taking domestically
reared game birds must possess a valid California
hunting license. In addition, each person, except holders of
junior hunting licenses, taking Hungarian partridge, ring-necked
pheasant, and chukar must possess a valid Upland Game
Bird Stamp.
(2) Prior Notification Required. Persons releasing and/
or taking game birds in accordance with this section during
organized field trials or hunt tests shall provide the
Department’s regional office in the region where the birds will
be released and/or taken the following information at least
three business days prior to the activity. This notification shall
be in letter form, by fax, or by internet. The information required
includes:
(A) The name, address, and telephone number of the person
providing the information.
(B) The location that birds will be released and/or taken.
(C) The approximate number of each species of bird that
will be released and/or taken.
(D) The approximate number of persons who will be involved
in the release and/or take.
(E) The date and time that birds will be released and/or
taken.
For any event where more than one person may be taking
birds, only a single notification is required.
(3) Restrictions On Daily Take.
(A) Domestically reared game birds may be taken only
on the day they are released, except when taken pursuant to
general resident game bird regulations.
(B) Bobwhite quail and coturnix quail released for dog
training or field trial purposes may be taken on any day.
(4) Marking of Birds.
(A) Prior to Release. If the Department determines that
there is a need to distinguish domestically reared game birds
used for dog training or field trials from other game birds at a
particular location or event, the Regional Manager may require
that some or all species of domestically reared game
birds used for dog training or field trials be marked with streamers,
coloring, or other conspicuous material prior to their release.
(B) Carcass. The carcass of each pheasant and chukar
shall be tagged with a seal as provided by Section 3206 of
the Fish and Game Code. The carcasses of bobwhite quail
and coturnix quail need not be tagged. While in the field, all
birds must be in a condition that the species can be identified.
(5) Inspection of Birds. The department may inspect all
birds prior to their release and no birds may be released if the
department determines that such releases may have significant
potential to transmit diseases to wild bird populations.

Scott Linden wrote:After years of bureaucratic bumbling, our game dept. is finally getting its act together to make it legal for Oregon dog trainers to use game birds to train their dogs.

Scott, that's got to be irrespective of training retrievers - Oregon is known as a mecca of retrievers and field trials, and those dogs didn't get trained on bumpers or thawed-out ducksicles.

You might also want to look at states that have dedicated training areas where daily fees are charged - sometimes per dog, sometimes per trainer's truck of dogs. South Carolina for starters, namely Cooper Black http://www.southcarolinaparks.com/park- ... 26716.aspx . Would've thought Oregon, being the nexus for West Coast retrieving competition - might boast something similar.

MG

In Maine you buy a permit/gamebird license and you can train year round.

In IL you need a game bird breeders permit if your raising non native species such as chucakr or any thing besides quail or Phez for just training yourself if your going to sell them yon need the permit or if you own land you can have a designated dog training area they provide you with leg bands to put on any bird you Harvest wild or not and can do so year round.

Ohio download/file.php?mode=view&id=3897&sid ... d5852claws for wild game propagation.Many state lands have a dog training areas set aside. Most are not very large.

Illinois has regulations pertaining to both private land and public land.
Anyone training with captive birds must obtain a game breeders permit ($10), and must obtain a valid hunting license.
You may train on any private land (if not shoot to retrieve) but may only use blank ammunition.
You may acquire a free Designated Dog Training Permit from the state department, and also need to post signs on perimeter of land. Training and shooting can occur year round. Harvested birds must be tagged with department issued tags (.10 cents each) before they leave training grounds. Grounds can not be larger than 50 acres to be listed as year round training site. You may also add names of other individuals that may train on the property.

The State also has numerous public sites open for training. Most have a season date (Sept-March), but a few are open year round. Site specific rules apply to each. A few let you train year round with training birds. Free training permits are issued at site offices with regulations pertaining to training field borders, shot size restriction, lead/steel restrictions. Again- hunting license, game breeders permit, state leg tags will be required. Most will allow you to release game birds and train over them using only blank pistols though. If you do not raise your own birds, but buy them, you must have in possession an original sales receipt from the licensed breeder (saler). If it was an out of State breeder (saler) you must obtain a certificate of health from a licensed health professional.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Yep, our laws are archaic and the process for changing them is rife with bureaucratic ineptitude, stonewalling, political gamesmanship and infighting. But we will prevail!

North Carolina is a mixed bag between private and public lands

Training Dogs

-Except as allowed in authorized field trials and training using domestically-raised waterfowl or game birds, it is unlawful to possess firearms, axes, saws or tree-climbing equipment while training or running dogs during closed season.
-Individuals engaged in training dogs and individuals who are active participants in field trials must have an appropriate hunting license.
-When training dogs during the closed season, hunters may use domestically-raised waterfowl or game birds provided that they use shot shells with shot of number 4 size or smaller and the shot is nontoxic when training with waterfowl. All birds must be banded on one leg with the propagator’s license number.

However the laws are very prohibitive laws on public lands.

The law prohibits the release of any pen raised birds on State Game Lands, which makes it very difficult to train a 'bird' dog.

Further it limits days of the week, months of the year, etc:
The use of the Sandhills Field Trial facilities at any time by individuals for training dogs is prohibited; elsewhere on the Sandhills Game Lands dogs may be trained only on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays from October 1 through April 1. Dogs may not be trained or permitted to run unleashed from April 1 through August 15 on any game land located west of I-95, except when participating in field trials sanctioned by the Wildlife Resources Commission. Dogs may not be trained or permitted to run unleashed from March 15 through June 15 on any game land located east of I-95, except when participating in field trials sanctioned by the Wildlife Resources Commission

crackerd wrote:

Scott Linden wrote:After years of bureaucratic bumbling, our game dept. is finally getting its act together to make it legal for Oregon dog trainers to use game birds to train their dogs.

Scott, that's got to be irrespective of training retrievers - Oregon is known as a mecca of retrievers and field trials, and those dogs didn't get trained on bumpers or thawed-out ducksicles.

You might also want to look at states that have dedicated training areas where daily fees are charged - sometimes per dog, sometimes per trainer's truck of dogs. South Carolina for starters, namely Cooper Black http://www.southcarolinaparks.com/park- ... 26716.aspx . Would've thought Oregon, being the nexus for West Coast retrieving competition - might boast something similar.

MG

Actually, it gets worse. Once we get thru this mess, the trainers who use Sauvie's Island are going to be up against the wall. Many think this exercise is just a prelude to the real battle over endangered box turtles, introduced species, etc. on that legendary training ground. More to come!

Some nearby states' laws:

Idaho: see the Rules set forth in IDAPA 13.01.15, sec 300 "Rules Governing the Use of Dogs" http://adm.idaho.gov/adminrules/rules/idapa13/0115.pdf

Montana: "The Use of Captive-Reared Birds in Dog Training" http://fwp.mt.gov/doingBusiness/license ... ining.html

Nevada: Title 45. Chapter 503. Section 200 "Competitive field trials for hunting dogs and falconry; use of upland game birds for trials and training" http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stus ... m#s503_200

HTH. Good Luck!!

VIRGINIA

The training of dogs on live wild animals is considered hunting and is unlawful during the closed season except as noted below.

•You must have a valid hunting license while training dogs on live wild animals.
•You may train dogs during daylight hours on rabbits and non-migratory game birds on private lands. Participants shall have no weapons other than starter pistols in their possession and no wild animals shall be taken. Weapons may be in possession when training dogs on captive raised and properly marked mallards and pigeons so that they may be immediately shot or recovered, except on Sunday.
•You may train dogs on National Forest or Department-owned lands only during authorized training seasons that specifically permit these activities.
•You may train dogs on quail on designated portions of the Amelia Wildlife Management Area (WMA), Chester F. Phelps WMA, Chickahominy WMA and "bleep" Cross WMA from September 1 to the day prior to the opening date of the quail hunting season, both dates inclusive. No weapons other than starter pistols may be in possession, and pen-raised birds may not be released.
•Pen-raised quail may be released at any time on private land with landowner permission. However, except on hunting (shooting) preserves, birds can only be shot during the regular quail season. Regular bag limits apply.
•You may train dogs during daylight hours on rabbits and non-migratory game birds on the Weston WMA from September 1 thru March 31, both dates inclusive. Participants in this dog training season shall have no weapons other than starter pistols in their possession, shall not release pen-raised birds, and must comply with all regulations and laws pertaining to hunting. No game shall be taken.

Ontario

We can train on game birds all year with a free training license/ no shooting out of season.

Problem is we have no pheasant any more and no Bob White. :roll:

We train a lot on Woodcock.