The Higgins Method and the "Magic Brushpile"

[Higgins]

I've been talking about the "Magic Brushpile" for awhile and thought it
was about time to put a video up.

This is a young pointer with no obedience training, no stand command or
"whoa" training and he has never had an e-collar on. Everything in this
video he taught himself to do with no pressure, commands or cues. He
chooses to stop to flush and be steady to flush, shot and kill.

This is how we start a dog. We let him learn to be successful before any
training begins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIYOMtnEQdc

Brad Higgins
Higgins Gundogs
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com

[snips]

Very nice..Why does he not break when he sees the bird fall.....

[Higgins]

Hello Brenda,

Most of them will try breaking at the shot as one of their options. I set them up to fail. With the Magic Brushpile, I have the ability to have the bird fall after the shot or fly away. The gun goes off, the dog breaks and the bird, instead of falling, flies away. The dog is unsuccessful. Many times, after the bird flies away, the dog will return to the area where he was pointing and ask for a do-over. LOL

Brad

[gdog]

What about a dog who just loves the chase?

[birddogger]

That is awesome, but I am thinking there is no way it can be that easy.

Charlie

[cmc274]

Brad,

That is a very impressive 'Magic Brushpile', however after watching the video a few times I have a couple of questions. You noted that if he gets pushy, birds are going to leave. Is it safe to assume they are in launchers that you control? How many launchers (or loose birds) do you have in the there? Will you end a session without killing a bird if the dog is not steady? Also, what type or rig / setup allows the bird fly away in lieu of falling if the dog breaks on the shot? Great video.

I really enjoy the West / Gibbons / Higgins / Lindley style and look forward to training my next dog this way (hoping to get him in August).

[4dabirds]

This is a great example of positive and negative reinforcement. The unwanted behavior is negatively reinforced move in bird flies away. Stand till you get there,get the jackpot. This is a brilliant idea using the brush pile, I am assuming with no scent then there must be some repetitions with scent, then a generalization period without the pile. This is similar to the way george hickox trains with the idea that a dog is motivated to please itself. This is a great way to approach dog training . My only concern is that you say the dog has had no formal whoa training as if to imply that it is not necessary . Whoa training is the bench mark for having control over your dog in the field which may be paramount in keeping the dog safe. Thanks for showing the video I would love to see more.

[Quailtail]

Very interesting. When does the dog learn to use his nose? Would appear he is not pointing but stopping just short of the birds flushing. I do not see much intensity in his point toward the end.

[Higgins]

The Magic Brushpile is about the dog learning that if he waits for me to go out front, I'll make him successful. Nothing to do with pointing. He already knows that. Once he teaches himself to be steady, working the brushpile by himself, I get him in the field on birds. After a few bird encounters, he points with all of his natural intensity intact, and waits for me to go out and shoot it. He taught himself this on the Brushpile.

Most dogs learn to be steady (on the brushpile) while I go out front in just a few sessions. Once he knows it, I won't overtrain him on it.

I'm going to try and get a video up each week with different dogs. You'll see that experience with the Magic Brushpile actually encourages all the dogs natural intensity and focus on point. Because there is no pressure, we leave no handprint.

Brad

[Hattrick]

Realy cool stuff thanks for sharing, but can the magic brush pile teach him to fetch?

[snips]

That would truley be a magic pile!

[Grouse Dog Guy]

How many field trial champions have been produced using this brush pile method?

[quailrunner]

Looks good to me. Always did like the "KISS" method of doing things.

[wems2371]

I thought it was an interesting watch. Like Charlie said, it does look too easy. I do believe though that anytime an animal can teach themselves (or be put in a position to do so), it is an easier/quicker lesson learned, so I'll look forward to future videos. I never look a gift horse in the mouth, when folks share training videos, knowledge, or experiences.

[Chukar12]

Grouse Dog Guy,

Why do you ask about the development of field trial champions with the methodology in the v ideo? Is there something in it that makes you believe it would not work? I am curious?

Joe

[4dabirds]

How many field trial champions have been produced using this brush pile method?

Probably all of them. This is just an adaptation of reinforcement training . All good dog trainers and for that matter all good animal trainers use this in some way or another. If you can wrap yourself around the idea that all dogs are motivated to please themselves and not the trainer, you can free yourself to see what is going on in this video. This methodology gets the dog to perform the task without correction and maintains the dogs intensity. All great field trial trainers recognize this as invaluable because at a national level all of the dogs that make the grade can all point birds. What separates the great dog is style. This method reduces the need for correction which is the one thing that will take away the dogs natural style. Do not be so focused on the brush pile , it is only a way of marking the location of the birds in the beginning to give the dog a visual cue. The dog learns by association not by getting knocked over the head. A lot of people have a hard time understanding or misinterpreting the signals that their dogs give them because they are stuck in the pack mentality or the my dog does it because he loves me mentality . This is the year 2011 and studies in animal behavior have come a long way since the old timers were writing their books. The handlers that study this, move with the times , win trials ,and dont want you to know about it so you cant beat them!!!!!

[Grouse Dog Guy]

Just looking for proof the method works and has been verified by people that have trained a few dogs too a high level, other than the guy making claims that it does.

[tailcrackin]

Grouse dog guy,
"The West Method", has produced alot of champions, and still is. There wasnt, and isnt a brush pile ever involved. The brush pile is Higgins work, not "the West Method". I would be happy to discuss more privately if wanted, Thanks Jonesy

[birddogger]

I am just curious as to why the dog stops at the brush pile to begin with, without scenting and pointing. I am always willing to learn something new but this really has me confused.

Charlie

[birddogger]

4dabirds, there are a lot of different methods for training bird dogs and they all work, but I have never seen correction, when done properly take anything away from the dog's style.

Charlie

[usmc4295]

Really wanted to watch the video again but now I get the message "Sorry the video is private :/"

[Cajun Casey]

Really wanted to watch the video again but now I get the message "Sorry the video is private :/"

Try this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSJds2SmGH8

[Higgins]

I re-edited the video and included more information. Hope this helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSJds2SmGH8

Thanks,

Brad Higgins
Higgins Gundogs
http://www.HigginsGundogs.com

[Busterb]

I really like this idea of having the dog teach itself with out any touch of the human to make a correction. My question is later in the dogs life he is going to have an encounter with the birds running on the ground that he can see and will most likely break point and flush or even worse catch them. He will have eventually have another dog crowd or steal his point or even worse rip his pointed birds. How are you going to correct him from a distance without an e- collar?

The Magic Brushpile is about the dog learning that if he waits for me to go out front, I'll make him successful. Nothing to do with pointing. He already knows that. Once he teaches himself to be steady, working the brushpile by himself, I get him in the field on birds. After a few bird encounters, he points with all of his natural intensity intact, and waits for me to go out and shoot it. He taught himself this on the Brushpile.

Most dogs learn to be steady (on the brushpile) while I go out front in just a few sessions. Once he knows it, I won't overtrain him on it.

I'm going to try and get a video up each week with different dogs. You'll see that experience with the Magic Brushpile actually encourages all the dogs natural intensity and focus on point. Because there is no pressure, we leave no handprint.

Brad

[smokinsam]

video not there.has been removed

[cmc274]

It was updated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSJds2SmGH8