Masters Voice gun shyness cure.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:49 pm

My buddy bought this and sent it to me wants me to try the program on his dog maddie that I'm working with right now, I'm gonna follow the program as stated in the instruction booklet and see how it goes, I'll keep updating on her progress and if is interested ?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:24 pm

Is that Rafe's stuff updated with a new name?

NC Quailhunter · Post by **NC Quailhunter** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:48 am

I am very interested in what you find out. I have a young dog with me right now that has a sensitivity issue right now. I am getting him completely bird crazy but I guess a little extra prevention is worth the few bucks. Please keep us informed.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:40 am

NC Quailhunter wrote:I am very interested in what you find out. I have a young dog with me right now that has a sensitivity issue right now. I am getting him completely bird crazy but I guess a little extra prevention is worth the few bucks. Please keep us informed.

I've been trying the same thing doing nothing with her but prey drive drills getting her chasing pigeons and chuckar, we did the first segment last night and the second this morning so far I have no idea if its working or not, its "calming" music with faint gunfire mixed in and slowly gets louder as you get through the program until its finally just gunfire I have a 4 speaker stereo in the basement that's were I play it at a reasonable volume for me which is probably more than enough for her, after some yard work and more prey drive stuff I'll play the second again and maybe try the third tonight. I'll try and put a video up of her listening to it if I can figure it out.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:56 am

gittrdonebritts wrote:
NC Quailhunter wrote:I am very interested in what you find out. I have a young dog with me right now that has a sensitivity issue right now. I am getting him completely bird crazy but I guess a little extra prevention is worth the few bucks. Please keep us informed.
I've been trying the same thing doing nothing with her but prey drive drills getting her chasing pigeons and chuckar, we did the first segment last night and the second this morning so far I have no idea if its working or not, its "calming" music with faint gunfire mixed in and slowly gets louder as you get through the program until its finally just gunfire I have a 4 speaker stereo in the basement that's were I play it at a reasonable volume for me which is probably more than enough for her, after some yard work and more prey drive stuff I'll play the second again and maybe try the third tonight. I'll try and put a video up of her listening to it if I can figure it out.

Like everything else don't rush it. A week is not too long before moving to the next stage. Maybe even two weeks if she is bad.

Ezzy

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:16 am

she isn't that bad and the first 2 segments you can't hear anything but the music and I've listened to all myself when she wasn't in the house so I'll probably try 3 but will replay 2 first as the program states, always start out the next day with the last segment you played as a refresher.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:23 am

gittrdonebritts wrote:she isn't that bad and the first 2 segments you can't hear anything but the music and I've listened to all myself when she wasn't in the house so I'll probably try 3 but will replay 2 first as the program states, always start out the next day with the last segment you played as a refresher.

That's very interesting. Last summer, we ended up with a dominant 70 pound almost feral dog that we eventually socialized and rehomed. I'd run him twice a day and we had all sorts of other things going to wear him out and settle him down, but, it wasn't until my wife came home with some "calm dog" CD that he would quiet down in his crate and relax and give us some peace. As I recall, the music was classical - strings, I think. That dog would lay down and relax for the whole hour or 1 1/2 hours that the CD played. I never would have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

Interesting that Rafe combines the music with increasing gunfire sounds. I wonder how/whether that will transfer to the field??

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:30 am

I'm not sure how it will but the last Segment or track is only gunfire so we'll see what happens when we move it to the field.

NC Quailhunter · Post by **NC Quailhunter** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:05 pm

What kind of music is being played to keep the dog calm. Is it a collection of strings wood winds or whatever? How long is each session? Thanks in advance.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:13 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:I'm not sure how it will but the last Segment or track is only gunfire so we'll see what happens when we move it to the field.

This may sound stupid, but are there instructions to bring out a gun near the dog's crate somewhere along the way? I've seen dogs who run with their tail down just SEEING a gun.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:31 pm

NC Quailhunter wrote:What kind of music is being played to keep the dog calm. Is it a collection of strings wood winds or whatever? How long is each session? Thanks in advance.

Yeah its kind of a classical sounding music and there about 15 mins per track it really is soothing I fell asleep listening to it lol the dog woke me up at the end of the first one lol

AzDoggin wrote:
gittrdonebritts wrote:I'm not sure how it will but the last Segment or track is only gunfire so we'll see what happens when we move it to the field.
This may sound stupid, but are there instructions to bring out a gun near the dog's crate somewhere along the way? I've seen dogs who run with their tail down just SEEING a gun.

No it didn't say anthing like that and they said not to put the dog in a crate while doing it so they won't have any negative relationship with the crate should they get freaked out by any segment of the program.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:32 pm

NC Quailhunter · Post by **NC Quailhunter** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:02 pm

Thanks for the information so far I look forward to reading the reports as you progress through the training.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:21 pm

Sort of sounds like a gimmick to me, but if it works, that would be awesome. It would probably be great for a puppy, but I am a little skeptical on a dog that is already gun shy. I am very interested in hearing the results.

Charlie

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:35 pm

birddogger wrote:Sort of sounds like a gimmick to me, but if it works, that would be awesome. It would probably be great for a puppy, but I am a little skeptical on a dog that is already gun shy. I am very interested in hearing the results.

Charlie

For gunshyness, I'm the same, Charlie. My money is on gittrdone for getting the dog trained, though. He'll adapt some additonal training to get the dog trained. I don't see how listening to a CD in your living room could transfer to the field-- unless....he's gonna take a boombox out with him after birds.

(who knows, maybe this will help bridge the gap and make traditional gun training easier????)

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:17 pm

who knows, maybe this will help bridge the gap and make traditional gun training easier????)

That would be great!

Charlie

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:39 pm

A friend of mine that breeds GSP's and trains dogs specialized in gun shy dogs and he has used it on several with good results. The dogs he used it for were the real bad ones that just didn't have enough desire for birds to use that for the crutch. But he goes very slow with it and lets the dog listen first softly and then increasing the volume and it seems they get so used to the noise of gunfire that they pretty well ignored in the field when starting them at a distance. Had a vizsla and a French Brit that took a month but both came out pretty well.

Ezzy

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:42 pm

Dogs learn by association. The dog may learn to associate the field, the gun, the trainer and anything else in the vicinity of where the act happened. The reason for introducing the gun while the dog is in pursuit of a bird is so that guns equal birds in the dogs mind. I would also be curious to see if the desensitizing will get you to a point where you can make it possible to get around what ever is the reason for the gun shyness . I would be leery about leaving the dog unattended while listening to the c.d..

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:15 pm

It's simple desensitization with the added bonus of building faith in the trainer that it will work.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:35 pm

4dabirds wrote: I would be leery about leaving the dog unattended while listening to the c.d..

I'm glade you bring this up it states very clearly several times never to let the CD play while the dog is alone there is a second CD that comes with the program that is just the calming music that can and should be played when your not with the dog I let her listen to it at night while she is in her crate(I'm also house breaking her) so it helps out a lot at bed time.

And to the reason she is gun shy I'm not sure but brad had sent her (at 1 yr old) to a guy in Kansas that was going to get her on a lot of birds and it turns out the guy had just let her run in high cover with his older dogs which were labs i think while he was guiding hunts and she had no gun intro but this guy in Kansas didn't know that. So I'm sure she like 5-10 guns going off while she was doing who knows what scared the crap out of her and made her bird and gun shy, she has come along way and is doing much better so we'll see if i can get this done she is a really well bred dog but had a rough start.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:17 pm

Good for you Gitterdone, your buddy has a heck of a resource in you taking this on. I'm glad you posted this thread, and glad to hear from Ezzy that he's seen it help. It's going to be interesting to see how it progresses. Keep us posted, eh?

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:36 pm

Second day on the the program, while I cooked dinner she listened to the calming CD in her crate after dinner we went into the basement and we revisited the 2nd segment while I did some work my coyote calls she did fine laid on the dog bed the whole time then we switched to the 3rd and she was ok through most of it and was getting a little nervous so i turned it off and we'll do #2 again in the morning and see how it goes and try 3 again tomorrow, for now she is sleeping in the basement listening to the calming CD as her bedtime lullaby its on repeat she has a bit of separation anxiety lol

And thanks AZ i'm not sure yet who is getting the better end of the deal him or me lol

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:42 am

I've never heard a CD, but I can understand the theory. The desensitization they talk of would be the same as a gunshy dog in a training kennel full of dogs. They hear gunfire all day and see how the other dogs get excited by it and look forward to the trainer coming in to give them their turn.

Might work, might not. I,personally, wouldn't put much faith in it. I think the decibel level of a gun is far sharper and higher than a CD. I also think that even if you desensitize a dog to the gun, without bird prey drive, you're going to be fighting a losing battle. The report of a gun in the field is very loud and startling; it takes, in my opinion, prey drive to offset that.

Remember that you're always BEHIND the muzzle of the gun. The dog is always IN FRONT of the muzzle of the gun.

JMO.

r nickell · Post by **r nickell** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:22 am

I used this CD with my GSP that was gun shy when I got him. I started the volume out at one level and used a dicable meter. Once I got him all the way through the cd at a low level we took him out in a feild and had measured off were the shooter with a blank pistol would stand so the sound level was about the same for the dog where we had placed a bird launcher. Then I would turn up the volume and do it again till we were able to move closer and closer. It seemed to work. Once he was were we could shoot the blank gun fairly close to him (about 30 ft away)I went ahead and sent him to a trainer to work with on the gun shy issue and other things.

Spark · Post by **Spark** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:46 pm

I used this with my current GSP puppy because I had made my last dog gun shy a little bit and did not want to do that again, plus it was easier than trying to cure a gun shy problem. I think it helped. I would always play with him while we listed to it and I cranked it up (the wife loved that) I told her it was man music!I would notice a difference in my dog sometimes when I just let him be verses playing with him while we listed. While playing he never payed any attention to it and when I let him be and the shots got louder he would turn and look not always. I think it is similar to releasing a bird and shooting verses just shooting around a puppy. For me it was well the money and time not to have a gun shy dog!

Jester · Post by **Jester** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:29 pm

r nickell, it was good to meet you at MoCan today.

well after talking to many people at the Mo-Can Vizsla Trials today and only hearing good things about it, i ordered a copy to try with a gun leery vizsla. will be sure to update with my experience.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:45 pm

I have been using it now for 5 days now its kinda hard to tell if there has been any results in the field cause I haven't been shooting when she is around. but she is just fine listening to the CD while we are in the house, I'm thinking about playing it outside but not sure if it would really make a difference or not but I'm gonna try it tomorrow.

NC Quailhunter · Post by **NC Quailhunter** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:32 pm

How is the pup progressing and are you seeing any new results so far this week? Thanks in advance.

BirdDogLife · Post by **BirdDogLife** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:00 pm

I have used the Master's Voice gun shy product on a dog that was EXTREMELY gun shy as a companion to countless hours of bird work without guns and a baby step into things like a cork popper gun and cap gun. It IS NOT an instant cure all to the problem. It is an excellent tool to help with gradual exposure and desensitization to gun fire in your pup. The biggest thing I can tell you is to take your time with the program. It took us almost twice as long as the program included with the product suggested. Keep an eye on your dog. If pup shoes any sign of nervousness or sensitivity stop and return to the kennel calm music only. I am happy to say that with the program and A LOT of work to move forward the dog in question has now completed his first year afield without even a hint of sensitivity to gun fire!

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:34 pm

NC Quailhunter wrote:How is the pup progressing and are you seeing any new results so far this week? Thanks in advance.

I took her out with a gunner using a blank gun with a very small charge crimp at over 100 yrds yesterday and she did fine usually she would have came back too me and walked with me so i think thats progress !

NC Quailhunter · Post by **NC Quailhunter** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:09 pm

Sounds like progress. Please keep me informed of the progress.

Rtyler4616@ · Post by **Rtyler4616@** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:11 pm

I too bought the gun shy cure. My dog is/was slightly gun shy. Not a very bad case, but still had some sensitivity. The first day I played the cd over my tv at about half the volume. I made it through the entire cd without my dog even noticing, he even fell asleep. I repeated this the next day at full volume on the tv with the same result. I then thought maybe my tv simply wouldn't go loud enough, I played the cd over a surround sound stereo very loudly and my dog sat chewing on a bone the entire time.

Seems like you would have to have a dog severely gun shy for this to of much use. Moved on to crimps and pigeons, seems to be going well.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Mon May 02, 2011 10:00 pm

Sorry its been a while since I last Posted about this but I thought I'd bring it back up I've played the tape many times for her at different volumes on different types of Audio equipment, she did show some apprehension at first on the last track witch is all gun fire but soon got over it she is doing much much better her prey drive is high and I can shoot blanks and a shotgun with in 30 ft of her no problem I've been delaying, killing a bird over top of her point because this is the first gun shy dog I have worked with and am nervous but I think she is ready so I plan on doing it this week and will post again with the results, I can't really say as to weather the CD did a whole lot or not mainly because every day she was out chasing birds and having some gun fire in the background so its hard for me to tell but I do think this could possibly be a great tool for conditioning dogs at an early age.
Joe

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon May 02, 2011 10:06 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:Sorry its been a while since I last Posted about this but I thought I'd bring it back up I've played the tape many times for her at different volumes on different types of Audio equipment, she did show some apprehension at first on the last track witch is all gun fire but soon got over it she is doing much much better her prey drive is high and I can shoot blanks and a shotgun with in 30 ft of her no problem I've been delaying, killing a bird over top of her point because this is the first gun shy dog I have worked with and am nervous but I think she is ready so I plan on doing it this week and will post again with the results, I can't really say as to weather the CD did a whole lot or not mainly because every day she was out chasing birds and having some gun fire in the background so its hard for me to tell but I do think this could possibly be a great tool for conditioning dogs at an early age.
Joe

hard to tell but from the experience I have personally had with dogs birds and chase and field I would hedge more of my bet on

as for puppies ROCK N ROLL plays for my pups all the time and I have it loud enough I come in excited and my pups thinks noises are great things something to check out maybe food maybe some toes to attack or newspaper to shred while I am trying to clean their area

Mark Payton · Post by **Mark Payton** » Tue May 03, 2011 7:02 am

Gittrdone,

Not sure where Tampico is, but you're welcome to come out and work dogs with me (I'm in south-central Indiana). I just finished with my 8th gunshy dog, and I've succeeded with all buy one (that dog had no prey drive and wouldn't chase flown pigeons). Not that you can put a dog on a timetable, but this dog went from being very sensitive to the gun (VERY sensitive) to chasing boldly while I shot a 12GA over her . . . and this took 4 weeks.

Mark

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Tue May 03, 2011 10:00 am

Mark Payton wrote:Gittrdone,

Not sure where Tampico is, but you're welcome to come out and work dogs with me (I'm in south-central Indiana). I just finished with my 8th gunshy dog, and I've succeeded with all buy one (that dog had no prey drive and wouldn't chase flown pigeons). Not that you can put a dog on a timetable, but this dog went from being very sensitive to the gun (VERY sensitive) to chasing boldly while I shot a 12GA over her . . . and this took 4 weeks.

Mark

What will you say when I show up at your door ?

Mark Payton · Post by **Mark Payton** » Tue May 03, 2011 11:22 am

No hablo

But seriously, I work dogs in the evenings and weekends, but I usually prefer to work dogs with others on the weekends. I've purposefully scheduled no client dogs this summer (the ones that I'm working now will go home at the end of May), but it's usually cool enough to work dogs early in the a.m. If you're interested, let me know a date or two that would work out, and I'll let you know if I'm available.

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